Whites SPP Adding Conductivity switch

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I like elliptical coils on the TDI pro it seams to give a more pronounced target signal over round coils that give a very broad response on deep targets, this could be confused with hot ground pockets' tho with the elliptical coils it shortens up the signal and makes it a little sharper separating the two. That's my personal preference that works for me
 
Yes. I know what you mean Zuke. I will get another big elliptical when I can afford it. I always had em on my 4000.
 
ronniecruisin said:
Ooooooohhhh! I dunno bout that Lazy Trommel. One thing, you're bang on the money with ...Yes. The SPP is very nice indeed out of the box. I'm really digging it. Light..Sensitive. All in all....Lovely. But. tis only my learned opinion, but I reckon the Cond. switch is a must have if it's simple to do which we now know it is. I had it on my Pro OZ and found it very useful and quite unique for a Pulse machine.. With a small coil it becomes a very capable Discriminating Coin Hunter. Very unusual for a Pulse! Also handy, also with a small coil for small Gold among Trash. I found if set right, those pesky little bits of rusty wire and nails and other stuff just disappear! Of course.. you must be careful not to misuse this feature, for in some cases you may miss good targets. But IMHO well worth having, especially considering the piddling cost of the parts. Which brings me to another point. Make a smaller box. take a couple of controls off. Advertise it as the cheapest Pulse unit on the market. Put a different name on it. and hey ...Presto, the world will beat a path to your door. Most customers won't look inside and wonder, like a small percentage of us will do! They will just buy it and have fun. Electronic components are cheap. The $900 extra for the SL means nothing. It's all to do with marketing. Don't pay it! We have been given the opportunity to have an SL for $900 less. Go for it, and enjoy this little bit of luck that has been thrown our way! It doesn't happen very often! :)
Would it be fair to say that to get optimal results from this feature on the Whites machines that the conductivity switch, pulse delay & ground balance should all be used in conjunction with each other? How would the conductivity switch on a machine preset for small gold at a pulse delay of 10us suddenly become a capable discriminating coin detector? Whites own literature tells you to increase the pulse delay for coins etc. which isn't possible on the SPP.
The only thing I can see this switch doing is either removing your high or low tone targets which the machine or yourself have no way of telling what it is? Whites own literature again says that target conductivity can vary due to ground conditions, target shape etc. Throw in orientation of target & I would be more than cautious using it especially gold detecting. Discrimination on pulse machines is a very grey area. Not too many trust it & its probably for good reason.
Don't get me wrong here - this isn't an attack on the SPP or TDI's in any way. I still think that both of these are great value for money machines but a statement like "the $900 extra means nothing" doesn't make sense to me or seem like great advice to new people considering doing this.
What the extra $600 (SL) or $900 (TDI) does mean is you get a machine with all the functions, designed to be operated with all functions & you are guaranteed of having these functions with an intact warranty. You still aren't getting a TDI pro or SL by adding the switch only - the pulse delay seems important to this too? Modding a SPP, set up predominantly for small gold at 10us, will most likely void your warranty. If you have an issue Whites may still fix it but it would be at their discretion.
My opinion:
If you want a cheap pulse detector set up for small gold than the SPP fits the bill. If you want bells & whistles get a TDI variant.
If you aren't concerned about warranty by all means mod your SPP.
If you want a good discriminating coin detector, in my opinion, you need a VLF. That is what they do exceedingly well.
 
Interesting thought Mbasko' I personally use the Tdi pro for hunting coins in the local parks set at 10usec and with a 14x9 coiltek blitz coil, GB then switch into high , last step is to turn back the GB to 4' now you will still detect trash on the surface but if you lift the coil a little trash will disappear but high conductive coins won't, I find it a lot quicker to set up and use than the MXT.
I have also dug many 1c coins at depths down to 9", trust me this machine is amazing on just about anything you can throw at it and it can do all this & disc out junk using mono coils.
Now the bad part- it has a tough learning curve on making adjustments to get the most from the machine and can cause doubt in ones mind this is why it gets pushed from the circle as ppl don't have the time or patience, Being able to switch into low in the gold fields will only detect smaller gold up to probably 1/4 ounce depends on purity, cuts down on noise making it easier to hear tiny targets,it will disc out a lot of nuisance trash and I find it cuts right down on hot rocks or high mineralisation.
once the conductivity switch is installed on the SPP I can't see it being and different than the pro for detecting coins.
I feel the conductivity switch is a very important part of the TDI and the detector would be boring without it'
 
mbasko said:
ronniecruisin said:
Ooooooohhhh! I dunno bout that Lazy Trommel. One thing, you're bang on the money with ...Yes. The SPP is very nice indeed out of the box. I'm really digging it. Light..Sensitive. All in all....Lovely. But. tis only my learned opinion, but I reckon the Cond. switch is a must have if it's simple to do which we now know it is. I had it on my Pro OZ and found it very useful and quite unique for a Pulse machine.. With a small coil it becomes a very capable Discriminating Coin Hunter. Very unusual for a Pulse! Also handy, also with a small coil for small Gold among Trash. I found if set right, those pesky little bits of rusty wire and nails and other stuff just disappear! Of course.. you must be careful not to misuse this feature, for in some cases you may miss good targets. But IMHO well worth having, especially considering the piddling cost of the parts. Which brings me to another point. Make a smaller box. take a couple of controls off. Advertise it as the cheapest Pulse unit on the market. Put a different name on it. and hey ...Presto, the world will beat a path to your door. Most customers won't look inside and wonder, like a small percentage of us will do! They will just buy it and have fun. Electronic components are cheap. The $900 extra for the SL means nothing. It's all to do with marketing. Don't pay it! We have been given the opportunity to have an SL for $900 less. Go for it, and enjoy this little bit of luck that has been thrown our way! It doesn't happen very often! :)
Would it be fair to say that to get optimal results from this feature on the Whites machines that the conductivity switch, pulse delay & ground balance should all be used in conjunction with each other? How would the conductivity switch on a machine preset for small gold at a pulse delay of 10us suddenly become a capable discriminating coin detector? Whites own literature tells you to increase the pulse delay for coins etc. which isn't possible on the SPP.
The only thing I can see this switch doing is either removing your high or low tone targets which the machine or yourself have no way of telling what it is? Whites own literature again says that target conductivity can vary due to ground conditions, target shape etc. Throw in orientation of target & I would be more than cautious using it especially gold detecting. Discrimination on pulse machines is a very grey area. Not too many trust it & its probably for good reason.
Don't get me wrong here - this isn't an attack on the SPP or TDI's in any way. I still think that both of these are great value for money machines but a statement like "the $900 extra means nothing" doesn't make sense to me or seem like great advice to new people considering doing this.
What the extra $600 (SL) or $900 (TDI) does mean is you get a machine with all the functions, designed to be operated with all functions & you are guaranteed of having these functions with an intact warranty. You still aren't getting a TDI pro or SL by adding the switch only - the pulse delay seems important to this too? Modding a SPP, set up predominantly for small gold at 10us, will most likely void your warranty. If you have an issue Whites may still fix it but it would be at their discretion.
My opinion:
If you want a cheap pulse detector set up for small gold than the SPP fits the bill. If you want bells & whistles get a TDI variant.
If you aren't concerned about warranty by all means mod your SPP.
If you want a good discriminating coin detector, in my opinion, you need a VLF. That is what they do exceedingly well.

I gotta agree with you..

Buy the detector for the job, don't buy the fluff, do your homework...
 
Zuke_Lynzy said:
Interesting thought Mbasko' I personally use the Tdi pro for hunting coins in the local parks set at 10usec and with a 14x9 coiltek blitz coil, GB then switch into high , last step is to turn back the GB to 4' now you will still detect trash on the surface but if you lift the coil a little trash will disappear but high conductive coins won't, I find it a lot quicker to set up and use than the MXT.
I have also dug many 1c coins at depths down to 9", trust me this machine is amazing on just about anything you can throw at it and it can do all this & disc out junk using mono coils.
Now the bad part- it has a tough learning curve on making adjustments to get the most from the machine and can cause doubt in ones mind this is why it gets pushed from the circle as ppl don't have the time or patience, Being able to switch into low in the gold fields will only detect smaller gold up to probably 1/4 ounce depends on purity, cuts down on noise making it easier to hear tiny targets,it will disc out a lot of nuisance trash and I find it cuts right down on hot rocks or high mineralisation.
once the conductivity switch is installed on the SPP I can't see it being and different than the pro for detecting coins.
I feel the conductivity switch is a very important part of the TDI and the detector would be boring without it'
The learning curve can't be too hard. You've only had one for a few months & your already Australia's leading expert on it :lol: Not much other info out there.
Would you say the "discrimination" abilities are better than the MXT? Do you believe that everything you are discriminating is 100% junk?
My understanding from researching this machine is it won't actually discriminate out all junk as such. Like all pulse machines it can & will get tricked on some targets under varying conditions, like Whites themselves list. Being able to use a mono is a plus but I still don't believe that it's bullet proof. This is the basis of my thoughts on the conductivity switch being an unwarranted mod at the risk of losing your warranty. Better off buying one with all the functions if you want them.
Whites said:
"Dependability varies with the size, shape, conductivity, and metal content of the target as well as the type of ground mineralization. In prospecting even the form of the gold (placer, sponge, crystalline etc.) varies, and can make the ability to identify the target difficult as well."
"If you depend on this feature to always tell you that the target is gold or iron, you could go wrong. The majority of smaller gold reacts in a predictable way (high-pitch tone), but very large gold can react like iron. In addition, very small nails can react like a small nugget."
 
mbasko said:
The learning curve can't be too hard. You've only had one for a few months & your already Australia's leading expert on it :lol:

I think perhaps anyone new to detecting will find the learning curve a little overwhelming at first, but for someone with previous detecting experience I don't feel it's a difficult machine to learn (if you put the effort in that is). I've only detected with my TDI Pro for approximately 17-18 hours and already feel confident with the controls and what they do. I did study the supplied literature and watch every video I could get my hands on several times which helped a lot.

Now it's only a matter of waving the coil over something worth writing about :lol:
 
I wouldn't say I'm an expert I bought the TDI pro before the little one was born and she is now 4 months old I must say iv dropped every other interest to just go detecting. I had a MXT and I'd say the TDI pro would be on par with the MXT on discriminating but less noise and more depth. It won't disc out 100% trash and yes tricky targets will fool it' like aluminum bottle caps sound just like a coin.
Each to there own on whatever machine they have or want but I'm using a TDI pro and will for a while yet' the wife has bought the SPP and we will add the conductivity switch.
 
The use of any of the TDI machines as a discriminator is Always a risk. With detecting, there are no fixed rules. Each of us must learn and discover the best way to operate the machine for us to get the best results from it. If it is possible I will be fitting the pulse delay pot as well to my SPP. If you compare the TDISL and the SPP they really do appear to be Identical except for the two omissions and a slightly bigger physical size to house the extra controls and batteries. As Zuke has said, the TDI really does work as a discriminating machine. As whites points out, it like all other machines are not perfect and care needs to be taken when using these settings. But I repeat.! This ability is very unusual for a Pulse machine. It is to my mind a very interesting machine to use. Even though I did have a TDI Pro OZ a couple of years ago, this time round ,I could not afford one. So this new twist is like a breath of fresh air to me as I know the difference it will make. When I said $900 is nothing I meant that if the machines are indeed basically the same and all that is needed is a few dollars worth of parts then, Why Not! If you bought an SL you'd be throwing away $900 or whatever it is. Yes. you may lose your warranty but from my experience these machines are pretty reliable and personally, I'm willing to take a chance. I wouldn't personally compare an MXT to a TDI. They are quite different machines. I had an MXT. Great machine. If the SPP works out as well as I hope I will be very happy.
 
Just a further addition to my last post re. perceived values of electronic products. Years ago I had another expensive hobby. Electronic music Keyboards. Cost? 2 to 10,000 Dollars. A friend of mine was involved with the importing of these instruments, and he told me that a typical Keyboard with a retail price of say $4000 had around $250 worth of parts. (That was everything including the housing.) Way bigger and more electronics than a detector.! Obviously you have to factor in the Design work, Dies and all other costs. But once you have these paid for, assuming the product does well, you're going to do well out of it. Now if I were a company like Whites and I had, say, a heap of detector bodies hanging around from a product that did not work out, I would come up with another product to move them. My SPP has a sticky label each side of the machine and you can clearly see another product name underneath. I suspect the above is exactly what has happened and hence the reason for this nice little friendly machine. The board is already done... The box just needs a new label on it....All the rest is standard in stock stuff....Hey! Wouldn't you do the same if it was your business? At $1200 considering the above it's a good little profit maker! Fortunately for us, the bits that make it the SL appear to be left in place. Like I said. Make it a bit different. Take something off it and most people will not question or look further. I think we have been probably unintentionally given a bargain! And I for one am going to take advantage of it. As to the reselling issue. By the time I sell it it will prob. be out of warranty anyway, and if I was the new buyer and the mods had been neatly done, and the machine worked, I'd buy it because of the update. As far as I'm concerned it's all, win, win, win.! :)
 
Yep. Your right! I reckon that's exactly what it says under the label. And they're popular for two reasons. Great price and as I'm finding. A good little machine, and in my case with back problems even I can swing it for hours.
 
If the loom is long enough. I'm thinking of mounting my Cond. switch on the front of the SPP opposite the coil connector.
 
I will mount mine in the same place and with the switch through a off cut of aluminum c section to protect it from sticks' painted black would look like it was ment to be there.
1408315233_image.jpg
 
I may remove the low end battery light and mount the switch there. The light bezel is 7.1 mm diameter, so hopefully the supplied switch will fit. If not I will get smaller switch. I may replace battery light with piezo buzzer glued inside of the case.
Karl
 
Ooooh. That's a nice idea Zuke. I might do the same. Very neat. Where do you reckon the best place is for the Delay pot? I'm thinking in line with the frequency pot between the bottom of the speaker and the armrest just near the two silver screws. I know it's not much room but I think it would look neatest there and it's not like it needs to be tweeked that often! What do you think??
 
Ronnie I'm not going to bother adding a delay pot so your on your own with that one' I just don't see the need as I never change the TDI pro even looking for coins, the only coil that iv used that wouldn't work at 10usec was a 16" NF mono.
I'm steering more towards razorback coils and the large ones work at 10usec.
 
Is battery life really that bad?

MODIFY! just get yourself a good SLA 12v 7.5Ah or 10Ah.. battery..

x2 http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=PS2012
x2 http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=PS2012
x2 http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=WB1754
x1 http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=HB6015
Maybe one of these also?
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=HB6360&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=997#12

Install one socket in the battery door, one in a small jiffy box that connects to the battery. (you'll need battery clips)
Wire the plug on the inside of the battery door to the spring tabs inside the detector..

make your cable with the other 2 plugs,
1408343040_wp_20140818_001.jpg

Like this..

Just a thought, if you're modding 'even the little stuff' your warranty is gone.
 
Ok. Zuke. I'll go with your advice, and much appreciated it is too. All I really want is the discrim feature. Are the razorbacks really that good? never had anything to do with them. My favorite coil on my ML used to be the 17 inch nuggetfinder. Do razor make a similar one and do you think it would work without the pot??
 

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