Gold & Silver the only real money !

[Swinging & digging]

Well I didnt get on bitcoin but got on ethereum at $12 and cashed out some when it got to $2000 so crypto has been good to me

So did you buy 100 ethereum? 100 x $12, cashed out all @ $2000 = 100 x $2000 = $200,000, - CGT ( ATO tax profits ).
You left with $135,000 you could buy 2 x 1 KG gold bars with that and have change?

 

[Mec30]

I cashed out half and the other half invested into other cryptos, so I cant complain

 

[Swinging & digging]

https://coinidol.com/market-survey-41-of-americans-not-interested-in-investing-in-crypto/

Despite this survey been done in the USA, its a good example of how some are interested in investing in crypto while others aren,t?

Before reading the article i would of guessed younger people on low incomes where attracted buy the get Rich quick.

Like the comment, Wild West phase.

 

[thedigger]

This is the problem of the world.
https://www.vetr.com/posts/2739105906-The-World-Is-Drowning-In-Debt

Too much "Credt"

 

[Gem in I]

havn't made sqillions myself on crypto but having fun with some profit throughout the year.

So not too late outback, good time to buy everyone is panic selling so consider this (back then) sorry i'm not savvy enough to do graphs and charts. Just IMO

 

[user 4386]

Thanks for clarifying my misinterpretation of inflation it was helpful. I read the article as a comparison of income/expenses to investment comparisons.
As I mentioned though I think a lot of average people would disagree that more household (lets call them) utilities is not a choice but a necessity nowadays (we need internet as much as electricity) and I hope future economists really factor in the rise and rate of additional bills as household expenditure not choices (usually to offshore companies or outsourced)

I don't understand the cogs of when the gfc wheels started to come off but I do know the mums and dads held an integral part of kickstarting it again (I think lol).
And an understanding for them a percentage of their income to invest, and what into, as per op post is a win/win in the long run not just fiat.

As always goldierocks I do honestly appreciate the amount of explanation/facts you contribute just sometimes goes over my head with what I do understand.(not your fault obviously).

What is essential depends how hungry you are....been there. Economists do factor these things in as essentials - the question is more how much you need to use, rather than whether to use them or not. One of our kids in their twenties had a mobile bill each month greater than I had both socially and running a business (we were'nt paying so we didn't worry).

The Australian government gave everyone $900 to spend during the GFC so as to get people spending and give the economy a kick when the GFC occurred - so yes, the mum's and dad's did it with their tax money returned by the government. The government also guaranteed $250,000 of your banked money, and in this way prevented a run on the banks that could otherwise have sent them broke..

 

[user 4386]

I read a little while ago that in Australia in 1983 inflation was 10.5 % pa. That was the year Bob Hawke became PM.
were wages increasing by 10.5 % pa back then? I doubt it, certainly not for the working class, different story for Managers and CEOs though, the 1980s
saw incredible wage growth for the top end of town. It also seen the start of the era we are in now, with the decline in manufacturing and demise of many
jobs that low and middle class people did. Leaving school back in the 1970s / 80s the vast majority got employed quickly in jobs and were able to pay
for a reasonable standard of living. :Y:

Have heard a few facts through the media in recent weeks and the saddest ones are, 50% of 25 year old and under school leavers do not have meaningful employment.
Only 1 in 5, 25 - 35 year olds will be able to buy a house. Nobody has commented on how much super those disadvantaged people have? I know many companies don,t pay into super for low income part time employees? The vast majority of Australians 2/3 rds estimated have only $1000 or less in savings excluding their super and equity in their own homes. So if they loose their jobs they will run out of money very fast. Imagine what could occur if loan repayments were not made, defaults in mass would ensure the collapse of the financial industry. 2008 GFC was initiated by sub prime mortgage crisis, the Globe runs on a debt based system.

There seems to be a generational divide appearing in Australia, young people feel there are limited opportunities to get ahead in life and compare what they don't have against baby boomers and other generations who had different experiences and opportunities. 8.(

I feel the Australian people of all Generations have been let down by our political leaders who went down the path of economic rationalisation and globalisation.
The majority of Western Nations are all making the same mistakes, our current financial & political system is unsustainable and will at some stage fall in a heap.

It is always possible to pick a short period in time when things look terrible - but on average wages do keep up with inflation, inflation does stay sustainably low etc. People forget that one reason that housing has short up in price is because inflation has been so low that people were game to take out a loan. However it has since got out of control, but that is neither inflation or wages growth but other factors (the effects of negative gearing, slow release of land, large-scale speculative investment). You can't fix a problem unless you first identify its true cause accurately.

 

[user 4386]

Probably a while back if one wanted to really make a killing on gold.

I don't see our falling dollar as part of the problem - our government would like it to go to about 65 cents so as to optimise our exports. I have been in two countries where the currency devalued by about 95% over a few years, but their economies are still going (if weakly). There are many factors at play....it is a decline in demand for our dollar (eg due to slower - but still high - growth in China, that is probably temporary), a strengthening US economy (not bad in itself), and our low interest rates. For example, if our interest rates our low, international money goes elsewhere where it can earn more, and the demand for our dollar (and its price) drops. If there is a decrease in demand for our exports other countries need less $A to purchase our exports with, so again demand for our dollar drops and its price drops.

As for the USA it has higher interest rates so more countries are buying the dollar $US and it is going up - but its exports are becoming more expensive for other countries to buy.

These things are rather separate from the actual risks of monetary collapse, which is what the real concern is about (like the GFC, which had nothing to do with trade or currency value, but with playing with the money market).

Interesting Internet News Headline today, Donald Trump is Not Happy with Higher US interest rates. :Y:
I recall before Kevin Rudd got voted in on the campaign trail going on about interest rates which were on the increase, made out he was going to help out and limit their rise, got voted in, looked into it and Said, "Nothing can be done about it, out of government control" See what i am saying about People not been looked after!

And what did Donald say later in the day What pollies say and what they believe are two different things (but obviously one does not want inflation TOO high, or to rise TOO quickly). So a safe comment for any pollie to make, with a worried frown and a couple of "nodders" on each side agreeing for the cameras...

 

[user 4386]

I read a little while ago that in Australia in 1983 inflation was 10.5 % pa. That was the year Bob Hawke became PM.
were wages increasing by 10.5 % pa back then? I doubt it, certainly not for the working class, different story for Managers and CEOs though, the 1980s
saw incredible wage growth for the top end of town. It also seen the start of the era we are in now, with the decline in manufacturing and demise of many
jobs that low and middle class people did. Leaving school back in the 1970s / 80s the vast majority got employed quickly in jobs and were able to pay
for a reasonable standard of living. :Y:

Have heard a few facts through the media in recent weeks and the saddest ones are, 50% of 25 year old and under school leavers do not have meaningful employment.
Only 1 in 5, 25 - 35 year olds will be able to buy a house. Nobody has commented on how much super those disadvantaged people have? I know many companies don,t pay into super for low income part time employees? The vast majority of Australians 2/3 rds estimated have only $1000 or less in savings excluding their super and equity in their own homes. So if they loose their jobs they will run out of money very fast. Imagine what could occur if loan repayments were not made, defaults in mass would ensure the collapse of the financial industry. 2008 GFC was initiated by sub prime mortgage crisis, the Globe runs on a debt based system.

There seems to be a generational divide appearing in Australia, young people feel there are limited opportunities to get ahead in life and compare what they don't have against baby boomers and other generations who had different experiences and opportunities. 8.(

I feel the Australian people of all Generations have been let down by our political leaders who went down the path of economic rationalisation and globalisation.
The majority of Western Nations are all making the same mistakes, our current financial & political system is unsustainable and will at some stage fall in a heap.

It was not our political leaders that really went down that path - there was no other path at the time. America effectively said it was going off the gold standard but promised to pay its debt (hah!) and we had a fiat currency standard (the US$ and we had to accept because the alternative was catastrophic. The plan the World Bank had was much better, but America canned it because of its debt. Originally the idea was that the World Bank would have nothing to do with transactions within a country, but would monitor and clear all financial transactions between countries, that way keeping tabs on where the money went. However the USA preferred otherwise and we got a system where we don't know where the money is in the world (which is why things like the GFC are possible nowadays). The G6, G10 etc was condemned as globalisation, but it seems to me that it was a regular meeting of countries trying to minimise havoc from what resulted - rather than causing the problem, trying to control the problem that had been caused. But I doubt that Mr Trump has even a miniscule understanding of world trade and markets, and that is why I agree that we are in dangerous times.

 

[Swinging & digging]

There is two different inflation figures.
The one the Government quotes, CPI and the real one, ( actual increase in cost of living ).

So they keep saying inflation is low? Around 2.1% ??? Ok why do my council rates, utility bills, insurance costs & grocery bills rise at 3 - 4 times the quoted inflation rate?
I don,t care if the cost of electronic consumer goods has fallen in real terms since the 1970s. Living a frugal living and not waisting money on luxury items my costs are rising more by what my earnings do. This is the same for the vast majority of Low & Middle income Australians which are the only ones who are effected by rising living costs.

Goldierocks,
Are you aware that $250,000 guarentee on bank deposits still exists? :/ 8.(
Though if we had a collapse of the financial system i doubt they have the funds to pay out deposits?
It is most unfair that 2/3 rds of Australians have less than $1000 in savings and a levy or higher
taxes would be used to pay people that have large deposits?

I recall driving past a meeting of investors in pyramid in the 1980s, it was on the news, never seen so many luxury cars in one place
in my life, News made the viewers feel sorry for the investors losses? Ruling government posed a levy on rateable properties to pay
out investors? :N: 8.(

I agree we are living in Dangerous times.

 

[user 4386]

Yes, they retained the $250,000 guarantee but have dropped some other measures.

The average Australian is saving over $400 per month:

https://www.intelligentinvestor.com.au/the-average-australian-s-savings-how-do-you-compare-1796511

I don't know how they arrive at this figure - I assume it includes money that goes into Super, and into re-saleable assets (e.g. house), because it pretty obviously is not what they have left over in their hand at the end of each month. Also, there is a problem with "average Australian", because it is the average of those at the top who save far more, and the bottom who may be going further into debt - we have a large disparity between top and bottom, although most Australians are neither of course. The cost of living varies hugely between different cities, and of course between those constantly employed and those who are unemployed long time. It also varies greatly with age group.

The figure I have seen is that 25% of Australians have less than $1,000 in savings:
https://finance.nine.com.au/2018/08...-housing-tips-families-into-emergency-savings

Inflation is calculated the same way world-wide for the purposes of comparison, and there are more things going down or stagnant than you might think. However it is skewed reality in some ways, because some things are averaged over the longer term (housing costs), and the "average" family and basket of goods differ a lot from reality for some people. I suspect that the biggest factor at the moment is not solely increased prices, but that wages have not been going up for a long time.

There is no question but that there are a lot of financially-stressed Australians at present, and it would be driven by things like power costs, flat wages, housing costs and changes to the nature of employment (i.e. underemployment).

 

[Swinging & digging]

$400 a month would be SGC to Superannuation.

Media quoted CPI inflation rate makes the ruling Government look good, but real inflation cost i what is making life expensive for most.
Don,t agree with your 25% for less than $1000 in savings, 2/3rds was the frequently mentioned amount, perhaps the MSM has edited
it as to not upset the voters.

 

[user 4386]

$400 a month would be SGC to Superannuation.

Media quoted CPI inflation rate makes the ruling Government look good, but real inflation cost i what is making life expensive for most.
Don,t agree with your 25% for less than $1000 in savings, 2/3rds was the frequently mentioned amount, perhaps the MSM has edited
it as to not upset the voters.

Not my figure - theirs. Usually the problem is not rigging of results, but the standard method of calculation (eg many people might not think of Super as savings because it does not help them pay bills - and it doesn't for decades). Also the complete misinterpretation of data by the media (bad news sells). These things are standardised, but their main use is seeing changes with time, because they are always calculated the same way even on an international scale.

"The 2011 Census found that 67 per cent of households own their home or are purchasing it through a mortgage""The proportion of home ownership has been fairly stable for more than fifty years""The level of home ownership increases with age: for those aged 15 to 24 only 22 per cent own or are buying a home, while 75 per cent rent. It's pretty much 50-50 between 25 and 34, and by the age of 75 close to 85 per cent of people own their home outright, less than 3 per cent have a mortgage and less than 10 per cent are renting". In May 2017 "Average Australian Yearly Wage: $60,892".

Statistics like that are not easily rigged. I think a lot of the pain is that each year the proportion of income we have to put into our home purchase increases - yet with wages not going up, that means we have to spend less elsewhere. And real pain is if you are long-term unemployed, as then these figures become meaningless.

 

[Swinging & digging]

Just imagine what rising interest rates could do to families struggling now?

 

[Outback]

Many are under the illusion that the $ 250 ,000 bank deposit guarantee is in place .

No deposit protection currently exits , it would first need to be Activated by the government !

[video=480,360]https://youtu.be/5QPUKOEMNpg[/video]

 

[davsgold]

A bit of lite reading.

http://www.bullionmark.com.au/gold-silver-confiscation-australia

 

[user 4386]

Many are under the illusion that the $ 250 ,000 bank deposit guarantee is in place .

No deposit protection currently exits , it would first need to be Activated by the government !

Nothing here says that anything has changed, and these scenarios always were the same to my knowledge - nothing has been retracted so far as I know (which was the question). Yes, it needs to be activated because a bank needs to fail first. The aim was to make people feel safe and thus not withdraw their money at once. It probably works to that extent - what happens after remains to be seen. However, APRA has to try and repay the majority of protected deposits in 7 days - there is a time limit.

"The FCS only applies to deposit accounts with funds in Australian dollars. If the FCS is activated by the Australian Government, the scheme will be administered by the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority (APRA). APRA will endeavour to pay the majority of account holders their protected deposits under the FCS in seven calendar days".

I think the concern is unwarranted if only a few institutions fail (if everything failed we would all be up the creek without a paddle). How much is held in qualifying accounts? Yet only a MAXIMUM of $250,000 is guaranteed (many holdings would be less, but most of the total held would probably be in holdings above that), so for one institution it would be quite minor, even for a few. A huge amount would be held still above $250,000 and would not be guaranteed - it would be the large number of small depositors who would get much or all of their money back. Most people would have put their investments in the family home, and of course loans are not interest-bearing deposits and would not come under the guarantee (have to be interest-bearing deposits).

A government can really do anything it wants to as an emergency measure. If there were no guarantee it could say "not our problem, this is the capitalist system" - it is not the government's debt after all.

 

[Outback]

[

After all, a government can really do anything it wants to as an emergency measure. If there were no guarantee it could say "not our problem, this is the capitalist system" - it is not the government's debt after all.

Yep I agree with the above .

I don't trust the banks nor any govt hyperbole "present or future :N:

Take care
jack .

 

[Swinging & digging]

Outback, have you noticed the significant fall in the values of crypto,s lately?

 

[Outback]

Outback, have you noticed the significant fall in the values of crypto,s lately?

Yes 'I've never liked them but would have loved to go back in history just once :lol: