Diesel Heater Install

[condor22]

When out prospecting and bush camping, I usually get back to camp between 4 and 4.30. I crank up the Honda 2kVA and do several things to maximise LPG and charge the battery. I usually leave it ticking over for 3 hours, which is more than enough to replace the previous day's use..

During this time -

The 120AH AGM is fully charged.
The hot water system is heated on 240VAC rather than LPG.
Wherever possible I cook most of my dinner in the microwave using 240VAC off the Honda, again saves LPG.
By this time the heater will be turned on and use genny power.
After tea, I run a small amount of hot water to do the whole days dishes. The hot water used is replaced and reheated, again on 240.
I then have a shower using the genny heated hot water and in a warm van.
By the time 7pm arrives, I've done all of the above, including the heater getting past initial heat up to just tick along. This lowers my battery use from figures above.

I have a battery monitor, so if I need to, I'm ok with giving the Honda an extra hour.

I've considered fixed Solar, but when camping in winter, in VIC State Forests, between cloudy overcast days and all the trees, I'm not going to bother. On my last trip, I met several people using solar only and consistently having flat batteries. I have a folding panel I can deploy if I want, but given space limitations, if I'm carrying the genny anyway, why bother.

On occasions, happy hour can stuff the whole process above, or at least delay it, lol.

 

[PabloP]

Thanks for the great post Condor, the high start current is something that I hadn't thought about, so will have to watch the battery state for a few days when I have my heater in and working.

I must say that I normally rely on the solar (240w) rather than the Honda, in fact haven't needed to use the Honda for my use so far. But then I also rely on gas for cooking and H/W.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. Have fun out in the bush.

Rob.

 

[condor22]

Rob,

Don't worry about the high start current, re AH used. The Glo Pin is only on for about 80 seconds at start up and about 40 seconds at shut down = 2 minutes. The rest of the time, it's self igniting.

So if you allow 3 minutes at 10A = 1/20 hour = 0.5AH.
Then say up to an hour flat chat at 2.8A = 2.8AH
Then say 12 hours at 0.8A = 9.6AH

Your total use for 13 hours = approx. 13AH

Your only consideration re the Glo Pin is the wire sizing, this is copied from the Dometic instl guide.

Cable cross sections for a cable length of:
up to 5 m (plus cable + minus cable) =
cable cross section 4 mm
from 5 to 8 m (plus cable + minus cable) =
cable cross section 6 mm

I used 6mm.

Mike

 

[PabloP]

Ok, thanks for the heads up on cable size. Was the cable supplied with yours smaller than the spec or wasn't the cable included with the kit. 13AH is still a bit when you add on the fridge for the night, so I will still keep my eye on it.

Rob.

 

[Blinkie]

Well Mike, it's a bit over my head but I do admire your technical skills and your neat and thorougher installation on all your workings.
I much enjoy following your fit outs from batteries to heaters and always look forward to the next project.
You certainly know what you are doing.
Thanks for your posts
Blessings
Bill

 

[condor22]

Ok, thanks for the heads up on cable size. Was the cable supplied with yours smaller than the spec or wasn't the cable included with the kit. 13AH is still a bit when you add on the fridge for the night, so I will still keep my eye on it.

Rob.

With the Dometic, you get a distribution harness (DH) that connects to the main heater connector. It has a number of connectors for;

The controller - you get a long cable with connector either end, one goes to the controller which has a mating connector, the other goes to a mating connector on the DH. Don't shorten this cable, coil any excess as I've shown in pics.

The pump - you also get a long cable with a connector on one end that goes to the pump under the floor. Connect here first, the other end has 2 wires with female spade terminals so you can pass through a small hole drilled in the floor (about 14mm dia because I covered the cable with split conduit) once through to the heater the spade terminals connect to 2 insulated mating spades. Again don't cut the cable, coil the excess.

The power connector - here the DH has a connector fitted, its mating connector is in pieces, i.e. a rectangular plastic cover connector blank and 2 female spade terminals. What you need to do here is run your own cable (not supplied) from your battery or power distribution point to the DH cable, strip the wires and crimp on the supplied spade terminals, then push them into the back of the connector blank, they click in. Then just connect the 2 together, one on your power cable and the other on the DH.

Of course if you have the Planar heater, it is slightly different but same principal.

 

[condor22]

Rob,

I ran some power tests on the heater and temperature on startup. I did 2 startups on 2 separate nights, here's what I noticed;

Temperature - The first night ambient was 9 deg, I set the heater to go to 20 deg, it took over 2 hours before slowing down. (this van is much larger inside than my previous one). The second night, I started the heater a couple of hours earlier when it was 15 deg ambient and it took less than an hour to get to 20 deg.

Power - At initial startup the heater pulls between 9 and 10A, but only for about 2 minutes. It then draws 2.6A whilst on ful fan to get to desired temp.
Then the fan slows down as the heater is only maintaining temp and draws 0.7A.

Result - The first night used 5.2AH to get to 20 deg, the second night used 3.3AH to get to 20 deg, then add 1.4A for the extra 2 hours the total is 4.7AH.

Conclusion - It's more power economical to turn the heater on a little earlier, before it gets too cold and has a bigger temperature differential to overcome.

More..........

 

[PabloP]

Thanks Condor, that is good to know. I will let you know what happens with mine, when I get it going.

Rob.

 

[Gilly47]

Very interesting instructions. thanks condor22

 

[condor22]

Very interesting instructions. thanks condor22

Observations rather than instructions

I also think the diesel usage on a shorter "flat chat" startup might also be less. The power rate is 0.28 l/h, whereas low is 0.1 l/h.

 

[Guest]

Awesome stuff Condor.

As always thanks for sharing.

 

[Shumba]

May I ask what the cost of the heater unit is please

 

[Shumba]

May I ask what the cost of the heater unit is please

 

[condor22]

The Erberspacher is marketed under the Dometic name in Australia, I bought mine from Dario Caravans S.A. for $1,850 which was the price advertised on their website.
However, when I went to order one, I was told the price was $1,950. Also the price on their showroom model was $1,985.

When I mentioned the web price, they told me there had been a price hike from Dometic, but their web site had not been updated. But, I was sold it at the advertised price of $1,850 without any issue. I guess the price will be whatever you can get it at depending on foreign exchange rates at the time. The fuel tank is an extra $180 and I also bought the fuel filter kit, which I think was another $35. So my total was $2,065.

Pinnacle wholesalers do a Planar knockoff, which I believe is made in Russia as the instructions are in "Ringlish", which is as bad as the Chinglish we get form China. The 2 outlet plus fuel tank is $840. I know someone on this forum that has one in their camper for over 2 years with no issue.

I actually bought one and the day before I was going to start the install, I won some money, enough to sell the Planar for $600 and buy the Erberspacher.

Webasto, also do a similar heater, Google them for a price, they are English origin, but not sure where made.

 

[Shumba]

Thank you very much

 

[PabloP]

Well I bit the bullet, purchased the cheaper Rapar and got a local Caravan maintenance company to do the install. My excuse for getting the pro's to do it were basically twofold, I need to head to Queensland this W/E and I didn't have the time to do the install, as so ably demonstrated by Condor, and I didn't want to compromise the vans fuel system during the install and hold me up in my travels. I figured out where I thought was the only spot to fit it in the van, but it was a very tight fit due to available floor space that wasn't compromised by under-van suspension components. The install tech spent nearly an hour looking for other alternatives, then agreed with the spot that I had suggested.

I guess there was a by-product of getting the cheaper unit, as the cost of the purchase and install added up to a reasonable $1300.

The Rapar is not nearly as smart as the one from Dometic as used by Condor (with a simple heat control that also adjusts the fan speed to match) and may only last half the time, but I guessed that if it fails then I can replace it at that time. I was surprised that the exhaust sound is not as loud as I expected it to be, and the unit came up to temperature more quickly than expected. The fuel pump clicking may be annoying to some, but as I am rather deaf, it hasn't worried me so far. Also as I haven't given it a long term run, I haven't experienced the slower rate when the unit is up to temperature for any period of time.

Another difference in my install to that of Condor, is that the fuel is taken from the vehicle fuel tank, but to avoid running you out of fuel, when the tank level gets below about 25%, the suction line comes out of the fuel and so shuts the the heater down. They have assured me that the unit will self prime when fuel is added, but I haven't tried that yet.

Sorry folk but as the install was done by others I do not have any photos of the installation progress.

Rob.

 

[condor22]

Well, regardless of what, who or where... at least you will be warm, that's what it's all about.

Drive safe and have a good trip Rob

 

[PabloP]

Well, regardless of what, who or where... at least you will be warm, that's what it's all about.

Drive safe and have a good trip Rob

Yep, this time tomorrow night I hope to be somewhere on the Newel Hwy, at or close to Moree, and last time I was there it was @@#$ freezing.

Rob.

 

[condor22]

not with the heater :lol:

 

[condor22]

Went camping last weekend for 3 nights, I got there Friday arvo and left Monday morning. If it helps others here are the results of my caravan battery usage;

Arrived, 3pm Friday, battery fully charged. I knew I was going to have a late one as the cricket was on, I also wanted 240V to run the Microwave to cook tea, saving LPG. Also as the diesel heater pulls about 2.8A until it reaches temp, I'd use genny power for start up. I also decided to use 240V to heat up the hot water rather than use gas. So, I ran the genny for 3 hours Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights till about 7.30pm.

Once on battery power, I had the TV on for the cricket from 7.30pm till about 1.30am, one LED light the same time and a couple of others for minutes at a time as needed. The diesel heater was on all night from about 4 pm till 8am next day. Saturday night only had TV on for 3 hours as we sat round campfire till about 10.30. Sunday night similar to Friday night, except it went down to -2 overnight and the heater ran a bit higher than its lowest speed etc.

I used 31AH Friday night, 26AH Saturday night and 43AH on Sunday night. I wouldn't normally watch that much TV, gotta blame the cricket, lol. So;

Lights, a bit of TV and the heater will probably use between 20 to 25AH which is a bit less than 25% of capacity. (120AH AGM @ 25% is 30AH)

I didn't recharge Monday off the genny, I let the BCDC1220 do that on the drive home. Also, as it was only 3 days, I didn't fire up the 3 way fridge in the van, I used the Engel in the 4x4. I also charged my Galaxy S4 and Android tablet in the van on Sunday via the duel USB port I installed.

Between stopping the engine each day and heading out the next and given the low overnight temps, the Engel used less than 5AH overnight.

My conclusion is that I have enough juice in the 4x4 and caravan to do what I want to do, I know what I'm using and charging and manage it accordingly with the BM PRO.
I have the ability to charge the 4x4 aux via BCDC, solar and genny and likewise in the caravan. I also have the ability to connect the 4x4 aux into the van to boost AH for the van if available and needed.

I'll get a better idea of normal use in September when I go on my next prospecting trip. I still consider fixed solar on the roof of the van, but each time I think, "Well I run the genny for hot water and microwave to save LPG for the fridge, the battery gets charged anyway, so, what value do I add by spending money adding panels, none really." I do have a suitcase 120W anyway and a 110W concertina for the 4x4.