More on Bush Power

[Ridge Runner]

Fellas,
Reading between the lines of preceding posts am I correct in assuming you do not combine solar & alternator charging while travelling?
My set up has a permanent 64W solar on roof through a PVM to the accessories deep cycle battery.
The alternator is wired permanently but can be manually isolated if need be. Usually when I'm home and fridges are removed.

I don't want mine all linked, I would rather have each system as a stand alone system, reason for that is if one goes down then I can switch it over or off myself, In the beginning I found so many experts on camping forums all over the www. It just got too confusing because they all had their own Ideas So I gave up on the concept making it all work as One, If one thing goes down then I can switch it out in under 5 minutes and I don't have to pay an Auto electrician a couple of hundred bucks just to tell me it's knackered.

I got a 100w Panel which will soon become my portable kit being replaced by 560w fixed set up and then I have the genny so I can power my Big workshop charger or one of the many smart chargers that Annoy the living $(!% out of Me, and Finally I am adding a 500w wind Turbine, and then I could always add a back up supply from the truck if needed.

 

[goody2shoes]

After reading this post I now know why my battery's was not charging to well on my solar...

I did not have a inverter ..

A old man I met up at lighting ridge told me I all so need inverter and another thing to be able to use my TV...

Would of been nice to of watch some TV along the way...

Goody

 

[Ridge Runner]

After reading this post I now know why my battery's was not charging to well on my solar...

I did not have a inverter ..

A old man I met up at lighting ridge told me I all so need inverter and another thing to be able to use my TV...

Would of been nice to of watch some TV along the way...

Goody

I bought a great little TV that uses between 6 and 8 watts an hour, I ran it off one of my batteries for nearly 2 weeks before it needed charging, It only has a 9" screen but it has a good picture and over 172/4 channels at the last count. :inlove: :inlove:

 

[Jaros]

Not those photographic channels Hmmmm???

 

[Ridge Runner]

Not those photographic channels Hmmmm???

No, TV and HDTV Channels, plus about 32/34 digital radio channels and it has a USB socket so I can plug in a USB devise with movies stored on it and it has a small Card reader, plus an AV IN socket, I have not watched my big TV since I got this little one because what the big TV would chew in an Hour will run this one for 16 to 20 hours, And I sit it next to the Laptop so it's easy to watch all day if I want to, They claim the internal battery is good for around 90 minutes +/- but it lasts for over 3 hours,

 

[condor22]

Nightjar - To answer your Q re combining solar and alternator. I think a good example of this are DC-DC chargers. The Redarc BCDC1225, Ctek D250S and the Projecta IDC25 to name but 3.

These chargers have a solar input as well as that from the alternator/start battery. They are all "smart chargers" not only in that they are multi stage (Boost, Absorption and Float), but that they also prioritise the source power. From what I have read in their manuals, they take input from solar first and if it's not enough add to that from alternator power. They switch or combine input electronically and internally.

The BIG difference in what you describe in your setup and these chargers is, that although they have 2 inputs, there is only one output, the critical aspect.
Your setup has 2 outputs, the PWM controller and the alternator, both most likely working at differing voltages and input currents. Which although it will work is not the best way to charge.

My methodology is to have one charger active at a time. Hence the reason I mention the Relay in a previous post and also why I have a switchable 240VAC smart charger and switchable solar in my Van. By installing a relay in the solar/DC-DC or solar/alternator, that results in one or the other. In my instance, I don't have the Redarc 1225 which includes solar, I only have the 1220 which does not have a dedicated solar input. It works from 9VDC up to 32VDC, so using a relay I can input 14+V from my vehicle or raw solar at 18-21VDC (depending on the panel) safely and then use its 3 stage output to manage the battery.

This AS IS from the 70A cont IGN switched Solenoid

This is the ADD ON of a relay for solar

Two smart chargers working at the same time would confuse each other as to battery condition. In fact Redarc (along with many others) do not recommend charging from 2 sources (outputs) at the same time.

 

[condor22]

RR Just went out to the car in the drive. Ambient is currently 23C, but sunny. Checked the temp gauge in the rear near the fridge with the 4by windows up at 29.6C.

So although I did tests on my Engel at 20C and 40C, I think that can be a guide only. An ambient of 20C bright sunshine will be far warmer in a closed vehicle than on an overcast day.

Even worse, on a 40C bright sunny day, the car would be far hotter than at night when it's 40 outside.

 

[Ridge Runner]

RR Just went out to the car in the drive. Ambient is currently 23C, but sunny. Checked the temp gauge in the rear near the fridge with the 4by windows up at 29.6C.

So although I did tests on my Engel at 20C and 40C, I think that can be a guide only. An ambient of 20C bright sunshine will be far warmer in a closed vehicle than on an overcast day.

Even worse, on a 40C bright sunny day, the car would be far hotter than at night when it's 40 outside.

Yep, The car has a huge impact @ 20*c and 30-32* the car can add another 15 to 20*c to the ambient temps, during this test in 20*c I added a Gas Fire to the mix and got the temp up to 33-36*c, this is why the testing has taken so long with running them at 2 different temp settings and then changing the ambient temp,

But the biggest shock was running the small Snomaster in an ambient temp of 20*c while set to -12*c, It was eating my 115Ah DC battery that fast I had to hook up the big charger to the battery because up until it got to the 12 hour mark I was not sure how much power it was going to Chew, Personally I would advise anyone in Australia from buying one, Yes they are fast but my word do they chew the power, I expected it to be better than the ARB 47L seeing as it is only a 35L fridge and after watching all the Video's on Snomasters, But at -18*c it will chew as much as a smallish household 221L fridge freezer and I am not joking and the big 95L Snomaster could kill a 115Ah battery within hours.

Anyways Both the ARB's are streets ahead of the snomaster fridges, Yes the snomasters look pretty with their stainless finish and they cool down fast but If you had one in Aus fitted in your car/truck then it will need it's own charging and Twin battery system, Not a twin battery system as in the Norm, But it's own pair of 70/100Ah batteries and a redarc or a 140/160w solar panel. And to honest after the BS I had seen posted on YT the Snomasters are a huge Let Down,

I know Andrew StPierre Whits has the 56L Twin Snomaster in his Truck but It is wired in to it's own pair of 78Ah Lead Crystal Batteries and they can be totally flattened and charged up very Fast Indeed and he also has a 160w Panel on the roof and a Redarc DC to DC Charger hooked up to them so of coarse he is going to be happy with it's performance and good luck to the Man, But for us lesser mortals our normal Duel Battery system is not going to keep one of them alive,

If anyone does buy one then the first thing you will notice is how fast they cool down but when you hook it up to one of those meters I posted in another post on this thread and the next thing is how fast the battery voltage drops,

J.

 

[goody2shoes]

I can watch TV by my 12 v ..USB socket and power converter

I have antenna...a little one...

But need inverter .. to be able to charge battery etc

Goody

 

[Nightjar]

Two smart chargers working at the same time would confuse each other as to battery condition. In fact Redarc (along with many others) do not recommend charging from 2 sources (outputs) at the same time.

Appreciate your reply, I'll read it through a time or three. I'm certainly an amateur when it comes to diagrams and circuits but do feel there is sometimes an overkill with what is actually required, $$$'s spent on must haves where it isn't actually required?
What confuses ME is the system I put together has worked perfectly for a 2+ decades (updated along the way) or more, as you have pointed out two sources usually get confused?
How is it without all the Redarc extras plus a huge extra money lay out a KISS system does & will work?

BTW the present 110AH Deepcycle battery is going into its 5th year, it has run the two Engels, charged the Garmins, detector batteries, torches and other items required when remote looking for another Golden Eagle. :goldpan: ickshovel: :goldnugget:

It all began here;

Through too today;

 

[Manpa]

I'm no electrician but I do like things to be simple, Anderson plug via relay for on the move charging of camper trailer 100a/h battery.
Two 120 solar blankets via a PWM each to a 36a/h battery pack each. Battery in camper trailer can be charged via solar blanket, PWM and battery clips if need be or via 240v battery charger if in caravan park.
We run a 50l waeco and led lights. Phones etc are charged in car when on the move.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Two smart chargers working at the same time would confuse each other as to battery condition. In fact Redarc (along with many others) do not recommend charging from 2 sources (outputs) at the same time.

Appreciate your reply, I'll read it through a time or three. I'm certainly an amateur when it comes to diagrams and circuits but do feel there is sometimes an overkill with what is actually required, $$$'s spent on must haves where it isn't actually required?
What confuses ME is the system I put together has worked perfectly for a 2+ decades (updated along the way) or more, as you have pointed out two sources usually get confused?
How is it without all the Redarc extras plus a huge extra money lay out a KISS system does & will work?

BTW the present 110AH Deepcycle battery is going into its 5th year, it has run the two Engels, charged the Garmins, detector batteries, torches and other items required when remote looking for another Golden Eagle. :goldpan: ickshovel: :goldnugget:

It all began here;

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/img/member-images/1414/1568450805_box_of_tricks_004.jpg

Through too today;

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/img/member-images/1414/1568450912_box_of_tricks_001.jpg

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/img/member-images/1414/1568451147_box_of_tricks_002.jpg

That black inverter in the first pic I got a 300/310w one of those and a 600 and a 1000w version, Buy my 300w one looks exactly the same as that one, :Y:

 

[condor22]

I'm of the opinion that no matter what brand of portable fridge you have, on a 40C day where it could be well over 50C in the car, its compressor is going to be running pretty well constantly. That's with it set as a fridge @ 2C, as a freezer, definitely non stop.

On real hot days I'd allow 0700 to 1900 as daylight and it going flat chat. Nighttime depends on where you are and how quick it cools off.

I remember being in Wagga Wagga on the RAAF base for a training course in January, (1980s) where it did not drop below 40C day or night for 2 weeks. No aircon, slept on on the floor in front of a window on as many blankets as I could "borrow". Shudder to think what that would have done to a 12V fridge I still rember how I felt, lol.

 

[Ded Driver]

you are right in that Condor22
If you are travelling, not as big an issue.
But once at camp, I take the fridge out of the vehicle & put it in the shade. It also helps to put a couple of big wet towels over it
On the beach in summer I put one of those silver coloured plastic tarps over the 4wd. It helps a bit, but if the air is 40C, then eventually everything will be 40C. I don't often go onto the beach in the middle of the day tho'. Normally late arvo.

 

[condor22]

Here's a reply from Redarc to the Q of multiple charging sources; (It explains what happens)

Hi *****,

Thank you for your enquiry.

Charging from two different sources at the same time can cause each charger to enter an early float stage.
During absorption, the BCDC maintains a constant voltage level for a predetermined period of time, or until the current being drawn by the output battery drops to less than 4A for 30 seconds; after which the charger will enter the float stage.
If your 240V charger was connected and operational, this would have an influence on the absorption time of the BCDC, and the BCDC would potentially influence the 240V chargers absorption stage if it has one.
The end result is a battery that has not been charged to its maximum potential, which can effectively reduce the life of your battery.

Best regards,

******

Here's the Link https://www.redarc.com.au/forum/discussion/7000/bcdc-1240-stand-alone-40-amp-240-volt-charger

The thing to consider, as I noted in my main thread is; A 240VAC smart charger, a MPPT solar controller or a DC-DC smart charger all charge batteries and are all "smart chargers". Their primary difference is at the input i.e. Mains ( Genny), Solar or Vehicle. The output is very similar, multi stage with at least Boost, Absorption and Float.

In other words and as I mentioned one will likely confuse the other. More........

 

[condor22]

Nightjar A Heluva setup you have there, I'd hate to have to retro engineer a wiring diag, lol. We all do what works for us individually.

But you at least support one thing I've said many times by the Ammeters and Voltmeter I see in your pics. Knowing what you got and use is the way to go.....

 

[Ridge Runner]

I'm of the opinion that no matter what brand of portable fridge you have, on a 40C day where it could be well over 50C in the car, its compressor is going to be running pretty well constantly. That's with it set as a fridge @ 2C, as a freezer, definitely non stop.

On real hot days I'd allow 0700 to 1900 as daylight and it going flat chat. Nighttime depends on where you are and how quick it cools off.

I remember being in Wagga Wagga on the RAAF base for a training course in January, (1980s) where it did not drop below 40C day or night for 2 weeks. No aircon, slept on on the floor in front of a window on as many blankets as I could "borrow". Shudder to think what that would have done to a 12V fridge I still rember how I felt, lol.

Well Yes and No depending on the brand, Because If a Fridge Sky Rockets the Amps in My Temps then it is going to be Useless in Australia,

The 35L Snomaster in 20*c used 47.097Ah when set to -12*c and 590w in a 24hr period in the Auto setting which is how all other fridges operate and when set to the "Low" power setting it used 38.057Ah @ 560w per 24 hours, Noting that this is not a fridge with a problem because the 95L top of the range version was even worse.

 

[ctxkid]

the new way

the old way

doesn't get simpler

 

[Nightjar]

Nightjar A Heluva setup you have there, I'd hate to have to retro engineer a wiring diag, lol. We all do what works for us individually.

But you at least support one thing I've said many times by the Ammeters and Voltmeter I see in your pics. Knowing what you got and use is the way to go.....

The jury is still out in our home, do believe the Redarc report is more a sales pitch than reality.
My set up is apparently "confusing" to them and a short battery life is pending. Hmmm! Battery going into 5th year and no sign of giving up.
You have probably noticed in the pic there are three examples of "confusion."
When driving, alternator and roof fixed solar PVM input.
When parked, roof solar + PVM and portable solar + MPPT. :sunny:
When we return to camp at night I turn both Engels down a notch, next morning both fridges still running (not often, ambient temperature hovering around 3C)
On occasions when the day has been hampered with :cloudy: we fire up the genny and plug the 40amp charger in to boost battery before :zzz:
The system is set to cut out at 11.5V, on VERY RARE occasions the power is off when we arise next morning. :Y:

 

[Ridge Runner]

The jury is still out in our home, do believe the Redarc report is more a sales pitch than reality.
My set up is apparently "confusing" to them and a short battery life is pending. Hmmm! Battery going into 5th year and no sign of giving up.
You have probably noticed in the pic there are three examples of "confusion."
When driving, alternator and roof fixed solar PVM input.
When parked, roof solar + PVM and portable solar + MPPT. :sunny:
When we return to camp at night I turn both Engels down a notch, next morning both fridges still running (not often, ambient temperature hovering around 3C)
On occasions when the day has been hampered with :cloudy: we fire up the genny and plug the 40amp charger in to boost battery before :zzz:
The system is set to cut out at 11.5V, on VERY RARE occasions the power is off when we arise next morning. :Y:

Yeah that's the reason I want to change to Lead Crystal batteries because they will except a lot of charge in a very short time and are a heap cheaper than Lithium batteries, Lead acid will only except a low charge rate in comparison, With the charging gear you have Lead Crystal would be fully charged in 3 to 4 hours Max. might be a thing for you to look in to.