Aussie Tow Ball / Tongue weights ?

[Ridge Runner]

Yeah good video that, I had worked it all out but I was looking for a way to upgrade my vehicle from the factory specs, the conclusion I came to is that I don't need too, Although I have fitted maximized components that has not changed anything all it has done is bullet proof the vehicle when it is used within the Manufacturers Limits,

My Kerb weight is 1810kg
My GVM is 2510 Leaving 2900kgs and ( 2610kg When Towing )
because the 100+ Kgs is taken from the Trailer weight and is added to the GVM of the truck.
Which leaves me 2800kgs
My GCM is 5410,

Having a High Tow ball weight is only going to add unwarranted stress on the Tow Vehicle and increase driver fatigue along with at night send your headlight beams Possum Shooting and blinding the family of Mopokes sitting in the tree at the end of the road.

I have found the ultimate Caravan made by a german company here in the UK that have been making caravans for about 87 years, Buying the basic model without all the junk in it weighs in at with a kerb weight of 795kgs and a GVM/Loaded depending on the layout between 1000kg to 1300kgs,

This 1300kg GVM model works best for me because it gives me a Payload of 505kgs Add that to my Trucks payload of 700kgs is 1205kgs which is an incredible amount when you add the trucks GVM of 2510 to the Vans 1300kgs @ 3810kgs because even fully loaded the whole set up is still under 1600kgs under the GCM of the Truck and I am still able to haul 1.2 Tons of gear.

Or by buying the bigger model that has a GVM of 1400kgs and a kerb weight of 965kgs would still allow me to haul 1135kgs ' 3910kgs leaving 1500kgs to spare As IN being under weight, that has to be a good thing for me and the truck not to mention fuel economy.

Here is another Video by the same Guy regarding load levellers, and he is mad the same points Redfin "well done Redfin" made, so they seem sort of Ok for highway use but a Big No No off the beaten track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCgRiVNaXFc&t=1s

 

[Ridge Runner]

I bought one of these Nose weight Gauges / Ball weight Scales, It was one of the more expensive models out there and it is Calibrated with a maximum weight of 130/135kgs which is more than enough due to how they rate things over here, 135kgs is about what a Ford 302 winsor weighs without the Heads on it,

135kgs is about 297.6 Lbs,

 

[goldtrapper]

I just had a look at the plate on a Hayman Reece towbar on a 1993 Land Rover discovery. It said tow capacity 4000kg, towball weight 120kg.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I just had a look at the plate on a Hayman Reece towbar on a 1993 Land Rover discovery. It said tow capacity 4000kg, towball weight 120kg.

That's my whole point yet the basic Idea in Australia in to use the 10% Ratio yet if you did that you would be loading that hitch with 400kg's yet Hayman Reece say 120kg's.

These Ratings by the makers of the Cars/Truck quote one weight and the Hitch companies state another weight and the GOV guide lines are to use 10%,

Now over here for my truck they list the Ball weight in the Hand book some places say 5% others say 7% yet according to my hand book figures it works out to be just over 4% @ 115kgs based on a 2900kg Trailer = 116kgs,

So it seems no matter if you are here or in Australia there is no Solid facts and figures because Hayman Reese just blew it out of the water, Where this is all wrong is because if you use the Guidelines of 10% at 4000kgs @ 400kgs and if your Hitch fails then that lets Hayman Reece off the Hook because you exceeded the Ball weight of 120kgs So again the blame falls on to you GOV say 10% AND Hayman Reese say 120kgs MAX which is Only 3.75% of 4000kgs which is asking for trouble.

This whole Towing thing is a Mine Field because the Laws say one thing yet the Tow bar People say another and then just to confuse things The Car companies then Say Another.

I must admit I was happier using the 10% rule before I started looking in to this, And this all started because while looking at Trailers someone threw a whole load of figures at me. :argh: :argh: :argh:

 

[manfromironbark]

I just had a look at the plate on a Hayman Reece towbar on a 1993 Land Rover discovery. It said tow capacity 4000kg, towball weight 120kg.

I have a 96 Disco which also has the legal 4000kg tow capacity and 120kg ball weight. I believe though that the tow ball towing capacity is limited to 3500kg. I'm not sure if there are other types of tow hitches that allow the full 4000kg towing capacity. Not sure that my little 2.5 litre turbo diesel would be able to tow it anyway!

 

[Ridge Runner]

I just had a look at the plate on a Hayman Reece towbar on a 1993 Land Rover discovery. It said tow capacity 4000kg, towball weight 120kg.

I have a 96 Disco which also has the legal 4000kg tow capacity and 120kg ball weight. I believe though that the tow ball towing capacity is limited to 3500kg. I'm not sure if there are other types of tow hitches that allow the full 4000kg towing capacity. Not sure that my little 2.5 litre turbo diesel would be able to tow it anyway!

The Tow Ball weight for your 96 Discovery in the UK is 150kgs

http://www.just-tow.co.uk/towbars/land-rover-tow-bars/land-rover-discovery-towbars.html

 

[Ridge Runner]

OK I got it worked out, Just because my Truck has a light Tow Ball weight does not reflect on it's inability to Tow and carry Heavy Weights, It is more related to the Ball Weight and it's Load Capacity

My Truck Has a 115kg Ball Weight But it also Has a 700kg Load Capacity add to that the 115 Ball weight gives it a total Weight Capacity of 815kgs then Add that to the 2800kgs of the remaining weight of the Trailer is a total Capacity of 3600kgs because 115kgs of the Ball weight is added as part of it's load weight, And that works out to be correct because I have a kerb weight of 1810kgs and a GCM of 5410kgs which is a total of 3600kgs,

Thank Goodness for that and thank you All for your help, :Y:

J.

 

[madtuna]

Just hook up what ever it is and tow the bloody thing. If it's still behind you when you get to where you're going and not still sitting in youre driveway with the arse end of your car attached to it... all's good! :Y:

 

[Ridge Runner]

Just hook up what ever it is and tow the bloody thing. If it's still behind you when you get to where you're going and not still sitting in youre driveway with the arse end of your car attached to it... all's good! :Y:

LOL, Brilliant Love It, and I totally agree of coarse but living here in the nanny state It would be just my luck to get pulled,

I want to get a camper or caravan by the end of the year so I can get out in to the country and go detecting 6 days a week, There's hundreds of sites to pull up for the night and huge servo's that are like small towns so every thing is on hand,

 

[Dihusky]

Disco seems very light on for ball capacity Thinking back, my Patrol had a max ball weight of 250kg, I fitted a tow bar off a different model patrol which was rated for 350kg, both were HR bars. Regularly used to tow at 250kg ball weight.

As you rightly say, there's an awful lot of unknowns and this is an area being seriously looked into by the Caravan Industry Assoc. in conjunction with Police etc due to the number of accidents caused by incorrect setups.

Some of the worst offenders for ball overloading are the camper trailer manufacturers, based on the design virtually everything is loaded between the hitch and the axle.

When we had ours, we shifted as much as we could towards the back, 70kg of canopy poles, 2 jerry cans, spare tyre etc and always traveled with a full water tank, just managed to squeak in at 245kg ball weight.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Disco seems very light on for ball capacity Thinking back, my Patrol had a max ball weight of 250kg, I fitted a tow bar off a different model patrol which was rated for 350kg, both were HR bars. Regularly used to tow at 250kg ball weight.

As you rightly say, there's an awful lot of unknowns and this is an area being seriously looked into by the Caravan Industry Assoc. in conjunction with Police etc due to the number of accidents caused by incorrect setups.

Some of the worst offenders for ball overloading are the camper trailer manufacturers, based on the design virtually everything is loaded between the hitch and the axle.

When we had ours, we shifted as much as we could towards the back, 70kg of canopy poles, 2 jerry cans, spare tyre etc and always traveled with a full water tank, just managed to squeak in at 245kg ball weight.

The Golden Rule is, If your Disco has a 650kg load capacity If you hook on a Trailer with a 150kg Ball weight on the back that means you have a 500kgs of load capacity left, Remembering that a 3500 or 4000kg Trailer can still have a ball weight of 100 to 150kgs, And in the same way If you go hooking on a Trailer with a 350kg Ball weight Your Disco now only has 300kgs of load capacity left for you to use, And that 350kgs is part of the 3500kgs Trailer weight So Now your Trailer can only weigh 3150kgs at the wheels because the other 350kgs is now on the back of your truck.

The Ball weight is all about your Tow vehicles Gross load capacity and does not reflect on how much weight it can Tow,

A lot of Aussie and American Trailers seem to have the Axles too far back which is why 99% of US Caravans have Tow ball weights in excess of 650 to 1100 Lbs or 294kgs to 498kgs +, Having a lower ball weight stops the Trailer from pushing down on the back axle which makes the steering too light and can push the Tow vehicle in a straight line on a curve or a bend in the road instead of around the bend, This is more noticeable on Gravel or Wet or Snow covered roads, Or get your kerb side wheels in the Gravel and you will loose 50% of your steering, Also having about 100 to 200kgs on the Tow ball is just enough to soften the shock through the suspension on a Tow Vehicle that is not loaded and enough to stop the Combo from snaking down the road,

The Load in a caravan should be kept either side of the Axle/Axles not placed at the back or the front, If the load is at the front it will try and push the Truck straight ahead, If it is at the back it will sway/swing like a pendulum, If you are Towing a car Trailer with a car on it and your truck only has a lowish Ball weight then it would be better to load the car on the trailer backwards so the engine is at the rear of the trailer.

Hope that helps.

J.

 

[Whisp]

The ratings that are applied to a vehicles ability to tow are not based on what the tow bar can handle, rather it is what the vehicle is allowed to tow based on the manufacturer's specs.

For instance, I have a Hyundai Santa Fe which is rated by the manufacturer to tow up to 2000kg with a maximum ball weight of 100kg and if I legally want to put more load on the ball then I need to have upgraded rear springs, but they can't be any old springs that you pick up from the 4x4 shop unless those springs have been specifically designed to fit my Hyundai Santa Fe. If I were to fit springs that were not in compliance with Hyundai's standards then I would have to pay to have those springs engineer certified by a qualified licensed mechanical engineer.

In the case of my Hyundai I can put springs on that come as genuine spare parts from Hyundai complete with an engineers certificate and a sticky label that gets attached to the inside drivers door frame and that then ups my ball weight to lofty 150kg. So just remember it is the vehicle that is certified and not the tow bar although that obviously needs to be up to snuff as well.

Those Land Rovers that Frontline Machinery sells are rated to 2000kg tow capacity as that's the max that the army wanted to tow and that's what the vehicle is certified to and if you want to tow more than that then you need to have it re-engineered.

 

[Ridge Runner]

The ratings that are applied to a vehicles ability to tow are not based on what the tow bar can handle, rather it is what the vehicle is allowed to tow based on the manufacturer's specs.

For instance, I have a Hyundai Santa Fe which is rated by the manufacturer to tow up to 2000kg with a maximum ball weight of 100kg and if I legally want to put more load on the ball then I need to have upgraded rear springs, but they can't be any old springs that you pick up from the 4x4 shop unless those springs have been specifically designed to fit my Hyundai Santa Fe. If I were to fit springs that were not in compliance with Hyundai's standards then I would have to pay to have those springs engineer certified by a qualified licensed mechanical engineer.

In the case of my Hyundai I can put springs on that come as genuine spare parts from Hyundai complete with an engineers certificate and a sticky label that gets attached to the inside drivers door frame and that then ups my ball weight to lofty 150kg. So just remember it is the vehicle that is certified and not the tow bar although that obviously needs to be up to snuff as well.

Those Land Rovers that Frontline Machinery sells are rated to 2000kg tow capacity as that's the max that the army wanted to tow and that's what the vehicle is certified to and if you want to tow more than that then you need to have it re-engineered.

2000kgs or in my case 2800-2900kgs might not sound like that much if you are thinking about towing heavy machinery. But in terms of Campers and Caravans we are talking about a Caravan that is in excess of around 30 feet in length or Over 9 meters, That's a heck of a thing to have to negotiate through the burbs to get to the open road,

I have been looking at one that sleeps 6 people and it's overall size and weight is 7.825m or 25' 8" and unladen it weighs 1300kgs and laden it weighs 1600kgs, So a 2000kg Camper/Caravan is quite a beast. add my Truck to that and it ends up over 12.4m or over 40ft long. layful: :inlove:

 

[Dog Ranger]

The ratings that are applied to a vehicles ability to tow are not based on what the tow bar can handle, rather it is what the vehicle is allowed to tow based on the manufacturer's specs.

For instance, I have a Hyundai Santa Fe which is rated by the manufacturer to tow up to 2000kg with a maximum ball weight of 100kg and if I legally want to put more load on the ball then I need to have upgraded rear springs, but they can't be any old springs that you pick up from the 4x4 shop unless those springs have been specifically designed to fit my Hyundai Santa Fe. If I were to fit springs that were not in compliance with Hyundai's standards then I would have to pay to have those springs engineer certified by a qualified licensed mechanical engineer.

In the case of my Hyundai I can put springs on that come as genuine spare parts from Hyundai complete with an engineers certificate and a sticky label that gets attached to the inside drivers door frame and that then ups my ball weight to lofty 150kg. So just remember it is the vehicle that is certified and not the tow bar although that obviously needs to be up to snuff as well.

Those Land Rovers that Frontline Machinery sells are rated to 2000kg tow capacity as that's the max that the army wanted to tow and that's what the vehicle is certified to and if you want to tow more than that then you need to have it re-engineered.

Very valid point
Vehicle specs and towbar manufacturers specs two different things entirely
Two biggest issues I have found whilst looking for vans is firstly, way to fat to start with and second is that many only have 500 kg or less between tare and GVM
Fill the water tanks and a few jerry cans and your just about legally maxed out = useless in the real world :N:

 

[Ridge Runner]

Very valid point

Vehicle specs and towbar manufacturers specs two different things entirely
Two biggest issues I have found whilst looking for vans is firstly, way to fat to start with and second is that many only have 500 kg or less between tare and GVM
Fill the water tanks and a few jerry cans and your just about legally maxed out = useless in the real world :N:

The Caravan Tare to GVM is a big problem I am having, Most of them here range between 130 to around 300kgs for Touring type Vans, I have found another Brand that range from 300 to 505kgs and have an external width of 6'6" / 2.0m which suits me better because I need to carry enough gear for a month where as a normal Caravans are between 2.2 to 2.5 meters wide which is no good off road and I cant seem to find a normal caravan that can carry over 300kgs.

If I can find one that can haul over 300kgs add that to what the truck can carry that's gives me 1000kgs and the small one that carries 505kgs would raise that to 1205kgs, just not too sure about it having a single axle.

 

[Dog Ranger]

As long as axle, spring rates and bearings are rated for weight single axle is no issue :Y:
My set up is 1650 kg fully loaded with a ball weight of 90 kg . After a dozen or more trips to FNQ any failure would have shown long before now.
Running 8 leaf Alko outback springs with parallel bearings on 50mm axle rated up to 2000kg

 

[Dog Ranger]

Probably best just to buy something with a solid chassis and then spec it up to suit your needs.
Tandem axle where I go would struggle in the tight spots plus another bonus of single axle is tare weight considerably less :Y:

 

[Ridge Runner]

As long as axle, spring rates and bearings are rated for weight single axle is no issue :Y:
My set up is 1650 kg fully loaded with a ball weight of 90 kg . After a dozen or more trips to FNQ any failure would have shown long before now.
Running 8 leaf Alko outback springs with parallel bearings on 50mm axle rated up to 2000kg

Yeah that's a good setup, the only thing that bothers me is having a blowout on a single axle trailer compared to a Twin Axle, plus running a single axle normally means running higher tyre pressure which can be a problem off road.

 

[Dihusky]

When you get the calculations wrong:

Fabricated chassis have their weak points, too much hanging behind the rear axle particularly on utes:

 

[Dog Ranger]

Yes indeed and prevention is better than the cure
Certified plates from Superior Engineering
The fix in the driveway is a lot easier than ending up in the situation like old mate above has found himself :/