Aussie Flag

[bob]

If someone beats me to it and submits a post, this post is a response to Ridge Runner's last post. He says that he is an Aussie but I think that his post does not reflect this fact. No self respecting Aussie would admit that they owe anything to the British. The Irish people that came to Australia came as refugees or convicts from a British regime that aimed to take over their country. They came here to escape famine and hardship or because they chose to stand up to the British domination and were punished for their crimes against the crown. Neither Wales,Scotland or Northern Ireland joined the British Empire freely. I see the Union Jack, the flag of the British Empire as a symbol of victory and domination of England over others and it has no place on our flag. Our history is full of horrors inflicted on humanity by the British Empire and they should not be honoured on our flag. It would be better to have a symbol paying tribute to all the migrants that have helped to build and shape our country which would include many early pioneers. It would be very interesting to test your theory about ninety percent of people being of British stock. You obviously haven't travelled on a Bourke Street Tram or attended the footy at a packed MCG. In both those cases you would find people with links to most European countries and several Asian countries. I am not part of the Union Jack and I am not part of the British Empire and never will be. There are still a lot of people in Britain that consider us colonials as second rate descendants of rat bags. I have been to England and experienced the British snobbery first hand. The sooner we go our seperate ways the better. I also really like the sentiment expressed by others concerning Australia's indigenous people. They deserve respect and recognition.

Cheers Bob.

 

[Gem in I]

So bob what part of history of any continent would of been your preferred choice ?

Don't forget canabalism was rife around most close neighbours at this time.

 

[Ridge Runner]

As pointed out the Union Jack is made up of the Crosses of England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland, who's people pioneered Australia over 200 years ago, Like it or not 90% of you have roots back to those people, They are your Heritage, They are your History, And Before Australia then your Heritage is directly linked to England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland dating back over 7000 years with a few immigrants coming from other parts of modern day Europe along with a few other places across the Globe

The number of Aussies with UK ancestry is actually 67.4% and there's another 8.7% with Irish Republic forebears. So the total is 76.1% not 90%, which leaves about a quarter of Australians with no such roots. How long have you been away from country, John?

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/ethnic-background-of-australians.html

Back when White people settled in Australia, England, Wales, Scotland and the Whole of Ireland was part of Great Britain, That list does not include the Scottish and Welsh people who also were part early White Australian settlers which brings the figures up even higher,

Bottom line is like it or not nearly all of us have roots that lead back to the UK and before that The Celts and before that The Beaker people and before them the Mediterranean Farmers and before them the Ice Age Hunter gatherers,

Like it or Not the Union Jack is part of the Greater Majority of Australians. and No Amount of Whinging Can Change that, I also like the Canadian Flag and the American Flag but that does not make me Canadian or American,

Changing the Australian Flag is nothing more than Pretending you something else,

Go ahead Change the flag to something else, but the fact remains that won't change One Person in to being anything but that of British decent, You can Pretend all you Like but that will not change what you Are,

And the quicker people realize that the sooner they will stop looking like a bunch if uneducated fools.

 

[madtuna]

So you're saying you really are a pom?

 

[Goldtarget]

Hey Bob,

I think if you take even a brief look at any nation youll see horror, conflict and atrocities.

We can all try and point a finger at colonial roots but the first seeds they planted made a wonderful nation.

Best system in the world right here, sure its taken some time to make some changes that didnt quite fit, but if you dismiss how it all began your missing the true value of what we all inherited.

Im not for a class system, slavery, white Australia, eradication and denegration of Aboriginal people or culture, all shameful acts, none of which though truly represents what we have become.

Im not a monarchist either.

However in law, Constitution, political and financial structure we have arguably the best system in the world bar none. Its not perfect but it is as good as it gets. We inherited the framework and went on to build something to be proud of. Thats the legacy.

 

[Ridge Runner]

If someone beats me to it and submits a post, this post is a response to Ridge Runner's last post. He says that he is an Aussie but I think that his post does not reflect this fact. No self respecting Aussie would admit that they owe anything to the British. The Irish people that came to Australia came as refugees or convicts from a British regime that aimed to take over their country. They came here to escape famine and hardship or because they chose to stand up to the British domination and were punished for their crimes against the crown. Neither Wales,Scotland or Northern Ireland joined the British Empire freely. I see the Union Jack, the flag of the British Empire as a symbol of victory and domination of England over others and it has no place on our flag. Our history is full of horrors inflicted on humanity by the British Empire and they should not be honoured on our flag. It would be better to have a symbol paying tribute to all the migrants that have helped to build and shape our country which would include many early pioneers. It would be very interesting to test your theory about ninety percent of people being of British stock. You obviously haven't travelled on a Bourke Street Tram or attended the footy at a packed MCG. In both those cases you would find people with links to most European countries and several Asian countries. I am not part of the Union Jack and I am not part of the British Empire and never will be. There are still a lot of people in Britain that consider us colonials as second rate descendants of rat bags. I have been to England and experienced the British snobbery first hand. The sooner we go our seperate ways the better.

Cheers Bob.

Your lack of research you cover up with taking cheap shots, I am Australian but I am not stupid enough to ignore the fact where most of us came from, and your childish rants about the horrors of 300 years ago is pointless because every country in the world has a dark past, And if you have One Drop of British Blood in your Ancestors Veins then you have part of the Union Jack in your DNA, Like it or Not, you can Bitch all you like but your DNA has the Final say in the matter and all your Whinging will not change a thing.

Footy and Cricket has nothing to do with it what so ever, and if that is the level of your Intellectual reach then the Country is Screwed,

 

[Ridge Runner]

So you're saying you really are a pom?

You Too Brother, :Y:

 

[StoneTheCrows]

I can't imagine that anyone these days would know what percentage of Aussies come from where.
I am guessing that most of us were born here and have no loyalty to anywhere but Australia

The flag as we see it today was not the original that was proclaimed in 1901.
Pollies changed the flag in 1908

I like the way Canada has shown it is an independant country and still is part of the commonwealth.

The Union Jack does represent our heritage by its link to England and I think if we had a flag that represented the modern Australia that we have become, most countries and people would still know our history

Some would say that link is not such a good thing historically.

 

[Gem in I]

Although man has no future if he has no past.

 

[Gilly47]

We have had enough disruptions for now.. we need at least a decade of low profile, lets get on with life type living. Repair broken stuff, buy aussie where possible, grow vegies, go camping. basicly Chill and DO NOT change anything

Love the flag, proud to be from west European stock, hate the EU,,UN and WHO

PS. I do have close family and friends that are from Indigenous cultures

ray

 

[bob]

That's the point Ridge Runner. I am not of British descent. Cave man DNA or relationships have no relevance in deciding our flag. I think our history should be reflected in our flag. Scotland, Wales and Ireland at the time of settlement here were all British conquests experiencing dire poverty. Given a choice they would have remained independent. Certainly Ireland. The famines experienced in the 1840's and 1850's influenced the movement of the Irish as refugees and convicts. But if you're British there was no famine. Fake news is nothing new. What happened in Canada was pretty much the same as here. India the story is similar. Move in, take over, exploit the locals for the glory of Britain. The only thing the Americans kept of their British heritage were the colours and they had to fight for their freedom. Where's the acknowledgment of the indigenous people of Canada on their flag? They were dispossessed of country just like our first people. Canada is working to address recognition and respect issues of its indigenous groups. I think that there is a lot of work to be done to heal the wounds inflicted on this country by the pompous British Empire. The flag would be a good start for us.

Cheers Bob.

 

[Gem in I]

We have had enough disruptions for now.. we need at least a decade of low profile, lets get on with life type living. Repair broken stuff, buy aussie where possible, grow vegies, go camping. basicly Chill and DO NOT change anything

Love the flag, proud to be from west European stock, hate the EU,,UN and WHO

PS. I do have close family and friends that are from Indigenous cultures

ray

Straight up in the guts :clap: :clap: :clap: erfect:

 

[Ridge Runner]

We have had enough disruptions for now.. we need at least a decade of low profile, lets get on with life type living. Repair broken stuff, buy aussie where possible, grow vegies, go camping. basicly Chill and DO NOT change anything

Love the flag, proud to be from west European stock, hate the EU,,UN and WHO

PS. I do have close family and friends that are from Indigenous cultures

ray

Amen to That, :Y:

The past struggles were not pretty but coming from those struggles has made Australians Better people knowing of our past,

That's Australian :Y: :goldnugget: :goldnugget: :goldnugget:

 

[reefer]

Well bob...I believe you and I are kindred souls.Ridge Runner is one of those fellows who I believe has served the nation and as a result of that he has a special affinity with the current flag and the symbolism which goes with it...and there are others here who have served under it...I understand and respect that.I also understand that many of those who served referred to the flag as' the big blue one'...which has me tend to believe that their focus was NOT on the Union Jack but on those wonderful stars on blue background...I could be wrong, but I sense I'm not....What I am sure of is that the Australia of today is vastly different to the Australia of yesteryear when the flag was adopted and we should have a flag distinctive enough so as to distinguish it from all others in the world which reflects the diversity and aspirations of the people who salute it ...perhaps the addition of the Australian emblem with it's depiction of the rampart Kangaroo and Emu in place of the union jack on the top left canter. In terms of the other nations who depict the Southern Cross on their flag I i refer you back to the Creation story of the Dreamtime...and the recognition of the First Nation's people.
In the beginning there were two men and one woman. One of the men became increasingly distant and disconsolate of the other man and woman. He would not eat and was prone to 'going bush'.Eventually went missing and the other man and woman went out to find him...eventually they found him at the base of The tree of Life which acted as the 'home roost for two Cockatoos...soon after he died. At that occurrence the Tree of Life uprooted itself and was cast up into the sky where it is today...the 'Pointers are those two Cockatoos who to this day chase the Tree of Life which they regard as their home. For the remaining man and woman it was a revelation that there is life and there is death and that they should procreate in order to sustain man's presence on the earth.
So in essence the 'Pointers are an integral part of the Creation story and could ideally replace the 7 pointed Federation Star on the lower cantor...thus making it unique from the other flags who depict the 'incomplete Southern Stars and accommodating the representation of those 'special interest 'groups I spoke of.
At least that's my line of thinking.

 

[StoneTheCrows]

Ridge Runner

I would say everything posted here is Australian
Just because some have different views doesn't make it not Australian

Maybe the English Heritage on the flag should show some convicts being hung or how the diggers were butched like lambs to the slaughter at Gallipoli or some other atrocious act caused by British rule

Yes the British were the second occupants of Australia but by no means the builders of Australia

We are all Australians trying to have a yarn, that is all.

 

[Ridge Runner]

That's the point Ridge Runner. I am not of British descent. Cave man DNA or relationships have no relevance in deciding our flag. I think our history should be reflected in our flag. Scotland, Wales and Ireland at the time of settlement here were all British conquests experiencing dire poverty. Given a choice they would have remained independent. Certainly Ireland. The famines experienced in the 1840's and 1850's influenced the movement of the Irish as refugees and convicts. But if you're British there was no famine. Fake news is nothing new. What happened in Canada was pretty much the same as here. India the story is similar. Move in, take over, exploit the locals for the glory of Britain. The only thing the Americans kept of their British heritage were the colours and they had to fight for their freedom. Where's the acknowledgment of the indigenous people of Canada on their flag? They were dispossessed of country just like our first people. Canada is working to address recognition and respect issues of its indigenous groups. I think that there is a lot of work to be done to heal the wounds inflicted on this country by the pompous British Empire. The flag would be a good start for us.

Cheers Bob.

Now your talking Rubbish, Britain became part of Canada because of the Trading roots of which france tried to muscle In On , And Britain became involve in India in order to stop one ethnic Group trying to Kill another, So stop Twisting the Facts, Britain was there to protect India's People, and when they learned to behave a bit better towards each other Britain withdrew from India, Britain was the first early version of what now Known as the UN is nower days

It's not for Britain to do any work for anything that the early settlers did, If anything that Debt belongs to the people who settled there Of which were no longer British Citizens, So that Debt belong to our Ancestors Not the British,

You Blokes are twisting the facts to suit your own agenda, Which is the Flag, The Flag never Killed anyone, It was the settlers that did the killing SO blame your Great great grand parents which were settlers and sailors and the like From England , Wales, Scotland, Ireland as a whole country incorporating modern day Northern Ireland,

If you are going to keep posting things that you know very little about then do some proper research first and find out why these things happened, Britain did not invade Canada or India,

 

[davent]

......we are becoming finders mk2. :N:

 

[madtuna]

You clearly haven't been practicing your social distancing.

Obviously been too close to too many poms cause it's rubbing off on you

 

[goldtruck59]

when I look at our National flag I see an Australian Flag, not a debate. Its a representation of a countries heart and soul.
There's always a minority group in every topic that will sook bitch and moan. Wont change a thing with their suggestions of such.
If we went to war or I was good enough to represent our country in sport, I would do so under the Australian flag, not a component of it.
Leave it alone its a great flag and I don't particularly like Poms either, the Irish are fun to have a drink with and you cant understand a bloody word the Scots and the Welsh say... er, apart from Tom Jones.

GT :sunny: :heart:

 

[Gem in I]

You clearly haven't been practicing your social distancing.

Obviously been to close to too many poms cause it's rubbing off on you

:lol: :lol: :lol: This looks like a good place and time nibble nibble nibble.
Going for gold. :lol: