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What gold??? :lol:
40E Permit's for WA - information and questions
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Help Support Prospecting Australia:
madtuna
Only owns one toaster
Hence why things are getting progressively harder in WA. People not filling in their returns or blatantly BSing on their returns. The mining companies aren't stupid.
They don't want your gold, they want your knowledge. You are helping them with their exploration.
Do the righty and some even offer incentives and even pay you to detect for them on ground you would otherwise have no hope of getting on to.
They don't want your gold, they want your knowledge. You are helping them with their exploration.
Do the righty and some even offer incentives and even pay you to detect for them on ground you would otherwise have no hope of getting on to.
just a heads-up before anyone shoots Haipoi down, he is now well aware of the current travel restrictions in & to WA
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'exact' location....so GPS co-ords are the go.
As an aside...there is a 90% non-compliance rate with 40E's...that is 90% of permit holders (prospectors) that do not keep their side of the bargain....
As an aside...there is a 90% non-compliance rate with 40E's...that is 90% of permit holders (prospectors) that do not keep their side of the bargain....
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@Madtuna, yeah this matches often for other things too unfortunately.... The 40E is in my eyes a chance to prospect in areas legally which are sometimes untouched, so for me is clear to play with correct and deliver the infos as requested in the 40E after i was on that ground.
@Ded Driver thank you for your help ;-)
@Goldtalk Leonora Thank you for the info too
@Ded Driver thank you for your help ;-)
@Goldtalk Leonora Thank you for the info too
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Haiopai said:
It's a good point you make....Lisa and I have had many Exploration licences over the years and many 20a/40E's put on them. We have only ever had one reporting form come back to us...it was a printout from tengragh showing tenement boundaries and a large X drawn over most of the tenement (310ha). I still believe in the 40E permit system...just. I would like to think that if someone actually did the righty and let me know what and where I would give them access to other ground. As it stands, there are only negatives for tenement holders..no positives at all. Think about it.
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Gold is elusive.....
And should stay that way!
Personally I beleive it should stay that way!
Or do you want MR BIG fencing you out?
And should stay that way!
Personally I beleive it should stay that way!
Or do you want MR BIG fencing you out?
madtuna
Only owns one toaster
mudgee hunter said:
They are not interested in the gold you are capable of finding just the info of where you found it.
The gold they are chasing you can't even see or could ever hope to recover but you are removing some of the indicators of where what they are after could be or where it came from.
The way it is at the moment is they are starting to keep us out because people aren't doing the right thing regarding their obligations with 40E's.
GTL's comment as an EL holder says it perfectly "I would like to think that if someone actually did the righty and let me know what and where I would give them access to other ground. "
Some mining companies now are even taking multiple P's so they can bypass the 40E system all together and just say no.
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madtuna said:
Same here..always happy to help people that pass the attitude test......Mudgee...don't even bother mate!
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madtuna said:mudgee hunter said:
They are not interested in the gold you are capable of finding just the info of where you found it.
The gold they are chasing you can't even see or could ever hope to recover but you are removing some of the indicators of where what they are after could be or where it came from.
The way it is at the moment is they are starting to keep us out because people aren't doing the right thing regarding their obligations with 40E's.
GTL's comment as an EL holder says it perfectly "I would like to think that if someone actually did the righty and let me know whatand where I would give them access to other ground. "
Some mining companies now are even taking multiple P's so they can bypass the 40E system all together and just say no.
Exactly.
Quid pro quo.
In other words "I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine'.
Its basic monkey logic, that even the most basic knuckledragger should understand.
Too many greedy, selfish 'takers' in the game who solely believe its their 'right' to be complete d1ckheads and not keep their end of the bargain re 40E permits.
Your hallowed 'Secret Spot' was legally inaccessible to you before being granted the 40E.
Give a little back, its not difficult.
G
Guest
G'day
We have put hundreds of both 20A and 40E permits in over the years and have always done the right thing and ticked all the boxes as required, sometimes even to the point where if we have contact with a company geologist in a particular area we have been sharing information with them, then last year we were rewarded for doing the right thing by the mines department for no reason given hiked the price of a single 40e from $25 to $90 now that's gratitude for you.
A permit that was submitted prior to the outbreak of covet19, that now cant be accessed due to the shutdown of our state and area restrictions, is in limbo and the mines department just keep the money, no refund will be given, talk about money for jam, and you wonder why it is you should do the right thing and start to understand why many people don't bother anymore, because these departments are all about the money and are creating the issue of non compliance themselves.
cheers
stayyerAU
We have put hundreds of both 20A and 40E permits in over the years and have always done the right thing and ticked all the boxes as required, sometimes even to the point where if we have contact with a company geologist in a particular area we have been sharing information with them, then last year we were rewarded for doing the right thing by the mines department for no reason given hiked the price of a single 40e from $25 to $90 now that's gratitude for you.
A permit that was submitted prior to the outbreak of covet19, that now cant be accessed due to the shutdown of our state and area restrictions, is in limbo and the mines department just keep the money, no refund will be given, talk about money for jam, and you wonder why it is you should do the right thing and start to understand why many people don't bother anymore, because these departments are all about the money and are creating the issue of non compliance themselves.
cheers
stayyerAU
Stayer, I guess the difference is this thread has mostly talked about the individual prospector and the individual/company that holds the claim and the interaction between the two.
Do the right thing by the claim holder and they might do the right thing in return.
The Mines Dept is a seperate issue and as with most Gov depts they dont always make sense and arent always working their hardest for the people they apparently serve.
Although, in WA I am guessing some of that 40e expense is put into the Gold Police or whatever it is called. Again, if people were doing the right thing, getting the right licences, staying in the right areas then perhaps that dept expense wouldnt be there and be getting passed on in the form of fee increases?
Perhaps the majority have stuffed it for the minority of people like you that do the right thing?
Do the right thing by the claim holder and they might do the right thing in return.
The Mines Dept is a seperate issue and as with most Gov depts they dont always make sense and arent always working their hardest for the people they apparently serve.
Although, in WA I am guessing some of that 40e expense is put into the Gold Police or whatever it is called. Again, if people were doing the right thing, getting the right licences, staying in the right areas then perhaps that dept expense wouldnt be there and be getting passed on in the form of fee increases?
Perhaps the majority have stuffed it for the minority of people like you that do the right thing?
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StayyerAU said:
I apologise in advance if I'm hijacking the thread.....Stayer I really do get your point of view....but the price rise was the first one ever for the permit and can you tell me of any/many things that do not go up in price? Also, departments have been moving towards 'cost recovery' for a long time...tenement holders cop it as well.
What it means really is that people using 40E's need to/will change their approach. Instead of taking out many 40E's, they will need to actually do some research and be selective about what areas they target. Imagine that!! Another point is that Au price has soared to the point where the permit costs say 1.5g of gold....your an experienced prospector obviously......if people can't find a couple of grams of gold then they need to have a look at things.
I am not a rich man...far from it...but I think that 90bucks for 2 and a half months and up to three people to go 'legally' prospecting on someones tenement and get to keep what you find is an absolute fricken bargain.
On the other side, because of the attitude/behaviour of prospectors I seriously doubt that 40E's will be around forever. Pressure is mounting on DMIRS to stop them altogether and unfortunately I think that at some point they will need to act further....perhaps the price rise was meant as a warning shot across the bow??
I have heard the argument a lot about the price rise 'forcing' people into illegal mining...no, I do not accept that. It may give some people an excuse they were looking for to do the wrong thing and sorry...but that just makes them thieves.
The DMIRS gave a pretty good reason for the rise I thought:StayyerAU said:
The price of aMining Act 1978Section 40E permit will increase from $25 to $90 as of 1 July 2019. This fee has not changed for more than 15 years while the costs involved in processing permit applications have steadily increased over the years. The new price accurately reflects these operational costs.
15 years & no rise + increased costs over that time seems reasonable to me. No doubt a lot of the operational costs are tied up in chasing wrongdoers etc.
Seems to me it's been pretty good for a long time. Maybe they should price index it annually to reduce the shock of increases?
I find it hard to believe that they will be keeping the 40E fee on applications that haven't been or won't be assessed? Have you contacted them about getting the fee back? From what I've read they will start assessing them again once travel restrictions have been lifted (in limbo yes) but surely if you wish to cancel now & re-apply at a later date they would be obliged to refund (legally too)?
It's the people that don't bother or just don't do the right thing that contribute greatly to operational cost increases so by going down that track you'll achieve nothing but further increases IMO. Using 40E fees as an excuse for non-compliance is just that, an excuse & a poor one at that.
It could be far worse. They could bring in Eastern State type rules. Jeez that'll hurt! :argh:
G
Guest
G'day
Much of the research you can do by means of the computer, tengraph, books, maps and so on and then deciding on where to go is just an educated guess really, as you are just relying on whatever information you can find being accurate for the area, there is no substitute for boots on the ground and until you get on the ground and have a look for yourself then you really have no idea what you have paid for, sometimes these areas have little or nothing of interest and although the information you have gathered makes it look likely to be productive you will soon find out that it is not, or its already been flogged to death anyway.
If you are looking for an area to spend some time camped on for the duration of the 40E then that's well and good, but should the area prove to be unproductive for you then of course you will have to go further afield and that's when people do and will trespass on to neighboring leases, that is the very reason we have always in the past put in several 40E's for use over the period we intend to go for, so that we have options if one or two are duds, I know that many people don't stay on the granted 40E for the whole period and wander the district using the granted place just as a base as we run into people all the time doing just that.
In short I understand that prices increase and cost have to be met, but my point is that the increase was dramatic and if you are putting in for say four permits, knowing that some are not going to be of any use to you and will give you a nil return then instead of $100 you have to pay $360, as we do a couple of weeks up and then a few weeks home in between sometimes we may only get to access the permit area one or maybe two times before it runs out, like I said its a different story if you are from interstate or whatever and intend on staying for a long period in that one area you could possibly see the value in that, but in this day and age with the gold being harder to find and many more boots on the ground moving about and trying as many area as you can during the trip is the only way to get consistent gold.
cheers
stayyerAU
Much of the research you can do by means of the computer, tengraph, books, maps and so on and then deciding on where to go is just an educated guess really, as you are just relying on whatever information you can find being accurate for the area, there is no substitute for boots on the ground and until you get on the ground and have a look for yourself then you really have no idea what you have paid for, sometimes these areas have little or nothing of interest and although the information you have gathered makes it look likely to be productive you will soon find out that it is not, or its already been flogged to death anyway.
If you are looking for an area to spend some time camped on for the duration of the 40E then that's well and good, but should the area prove to be unproductive for you then of course you will have to go further afield and that's when people do and will trespass on to neighboring leases, that is the very reason we have always in the past put in several 40E's for use over the period we intend to go for, so that we have options if one or two are duds, I know that many people don't stay on the granted 40E for the whole period and wander the district using the granted place just as a base as we run into people all the time doing just that.
In short I understand that prices increase and cost have to be met, but my point is that the increase was dramatic and if you are putting in for say four permits, knowing that some are not going to be of any use to you and will give you a nil return then instead of $100 you have to pay $360, as we do a couple of weeks up and then a few weeks home in between sometimes we may only get to access the permit area one or maybe two times before it runs out, like I said its a different story if you are from interstate or whatever and intend on staying for a long period in that one area you could possibly see the value in that, but in this day and age with the gold being harder to find and many more boots on the ground moving about and trying as many area as you can during the trip is the only way to get consistent gold.
cheers
stayyerAU
Re (that is the very reason we have always in the past put in several 40E's for use over the period we intend to go for, so that we have options if one or two are duds)
Yes one of our way south of Laverton 40E's was a Dud, just sand and a few trees, maybe gold but meters under the sand, only some much you can see using Google Earth/Tengraph.
Maybe next year its get 3, 40E's (just in case one or 2 are duds) at home and be on the look out, and some travel for 40E's Locations that you can submit when over there.
We also consider the pending sites, but in the past have camped on the 40E or 20A locations.
Peter
Yes one of our way south of Laverton 40E's was a Dud, just sand and a few trees, maybe gold but meters under the sand, only some much you can see using Google Earth/Tengraph.
Maybe next year its get 3, 40E's (just in case one or 2 are duds) at home and be on the look out, and some travel for 40E's Locations that you can submit when over there.
We also consider the pending sites, but in the past have camped on the 40E or 20A locations.
Peter
$90 for a 40E is very reasonable, find 1.5 grams of gold and your permit is paid for even if you are only there for a couple of weeks. Strange how people will pay up to $10 000 for a detector then complain about a $90 40E. Stay at home and leave the gold for others then, we don't need you whining people out here.
Cheers
Doug
Cheers
Doug
