things to look for when buying a 4WD

[Syndyne]

Hi all,

Some great info here. Been very good reading!

Looking into upgrading the old Navara currently -just not enough room to accommodate all the gear we carry for prospecting.

It's a 98 D22 dual cab (tray back) 3.2ltr Diesel with a pretty large aftermarket Denco Turbo fitted. It's been pretty good to us engine-wise so far. Only thing we did was replace the clutch and pressure plates as she gave out just after we bought it in 05. It was expected as the K's were well passed the due date to do so anyhow.

The serious problem we had was with the lower control arms. The area on the edge of the lower control arm that holds the ball joint is very weakly designed and prone to metal fatigue. We found this out first hand a couple years back when we were just reversing out of a carpark as the whole front end collapsed onto the ground. Luckily we weren't traveling on a highway otherwise I may not be here now. The drivers side lower arm pretty much exploded into shrapnel. I picked up pieces from several metres away.

I replaced the arm and all of the damaged components myself (to save quite a few $$$$) and could see the damage was quite extensive. I found out after that this was a serious concern when they were first manufactured. As you guys probably know, it's only a small ring of 3mm pressed plate that the ball joint sits in. Ideally I'd like to see it reinforced with a good 7 or 8mm metal rod welded up inside the ball joint housing.

After replacing both ball joints a few weeks ago the mechanic told us that there are now stress fractures in the passenger side lower arm that will need addressing soon, either by welding or replacing with another new lower arm. I might take the time to reinforce both for the short time we still have it. Shouldn't be much more than twenty minutes work with access to a TIG. It makes me very wary of control arm front suspension now.

I like the look of front diff coil-over 4X's more and more nowadays
Cheers,
Shauno.

 

[charlie123]

Good option for a 4x4 has always been front leaf springs, less to go wrong and better for climbing, I personally would have no other setup. New navaras have also recall on alloy rims cracking, ridiculouse. Different story While working at toyota a bloke would come in every 8 months or so to rebuild sometimes replace the gearbox in his 78 series cruiser, so I asked what he was using it for, it is out of the ordinary for you to have this much trouble with the gearbox. I will never forget his response, He would use it for logging, cut the trees up and move the pieces into lines, each piece roughly 3 tonne, he said he would have to jerk them alot of the time to move them I nearly fainted, informed him a tractor might be the cheaper option, I think he loved the cruiser so much he didn't think he needed the tractor. Diff tailshaft uni joints supprisingly strong. Cant go wrong with the 78 series cruisers

 

[TenOunce Tone]

Hmmm I am looking for a 4wd. Im thinking of going for one of the ex defence landvrover 110s. I know they have been serviced etc.. good clearance.. bit of a box to ride in but the payoff comes in the xcountry ability. Any opinions??

Tone

 

[HeadsUp]

Hmmm I am looking for a 4wd. Im thinking of going for one of the ex defence landvrover 110s. I know they have been serviced etc.. good clearance.. bit of a box to ride in but the payoff comes in the xcountry ability. Any opinions??

Tone

yes

go to do an inspection yourself

pick out some that you like and then sit down and read very very slowly through the service log books

Some of the vehicles are listed as having for example 8752 km on the clock but many of them have had the odometer replaced and that will show in the log book , add the log book figures together and you might find the vehicle has done 298247 km

on occasions you might find a vehicle that had light accident damage in its first week of service ( lets say $ 2000 worth ) and then sat in their storage for 8 years before being sent to Tenix or similar for a full rebuild that cost taxpayers $ 94,000 , then it had 3600 km put on the clock prior to ending up in Grays Auctions where it might sell for $8300 to 11,000 ( with a genuine 3700 km on the clock )

you will also get vehicles that have 178,000 km on the clock and still be in fairly honest condition , they do get serviced well and the log books are mostly honest

HOWEVER . when you read through the log books you might see a few where the engine number and chassis number have been whited out and new numbers written in.
That means the log book for your vehicle was lost and they gave it a log book from a written off vehicle prior to sale where absolutely none of the vehicle history is honest.

bottom line with those auctions ?

dont buy one without inspection

dont start bidding until the last 15 minutes

give yourself a few options and put all of them on your watchlist as sometimes you get buyers with tunnel vision who will bid on one vehicle up to $10500 for example , while an identical ( or better vehicle ) gets overlooked and sells for $6800

be patient . set a price limit and dont go past it on the day

they have about 4000 vehicles still to dispose of so dont rush

 

[charlie123]

Does not matter how much knowledge one has of a vehicle it is up to the inspector to tell you how much money it is worth after spending to fix. I do agree cruiser, hilux, or rover

 

[thesmithy]

At the Landrover field day at Castle Hill showgroundmid way through I think September 2013
Greys had 7 vehicles on display.
They were straight down the line......all faults if any were recorded and shown to everyone.
I am a landrover tragic.
I was very impress as they are fully serviced even if they don't need it. I spent half the day under all of them.
everything was solid and serviced.
Price way over the top only because they were a novelty at the time with 4000 plus vehicles for auction

one of the lovely ladys said they are selling in batches of roughly 30 at a time.
hang out for a few years and you will pick up this same vehicle at auction today for 13,000 in 3 years the market will be flooded the same vehicle will action for around 6 to 7000 dollars.

It is a good deal considering I purchased mine for 3500 dollars then spent another 15,000 dollars to dring it up to a top notch vehicle.
will travel to any location and return with no issues.
These vehicles ready to go for 8000 dollars a bargain.

 

[axeman]

Hmmm I am looking for a 4wd. Im thinking of going for one of the ex defence landvrover 110s. I know they have been serviced etc.. good clearance.. bit of a box to ride in but the payoff comes in the xcountry ability. Any opinions??

Tone

Go the landy, These ex military landies are beasts, tractors. They may be a bit agriculture and basic but they take a fair flogging if they have to. I'm after one of the early models, last of the 4 cyl ones or the first of the 5 cyl. The ecu needs relocating and a couple of other minor things. As with any 4b check the service records but if it's straight from the military it should be ok. Military or no military I'd be changing all oils and brake and clutch fluid as well as a radiator flush. Check the oils for metal and water. More info on www.aulro.com.
Mick

 

[charlie123]

would this be the same model as the one les hiddins drives, bush tucker man?.

 

[HeadsUp]

At the Landrover field day at Castle Hill showgroundmid way through I think September 2013
Greys had 7 vehicles on display.
They were straight down the line......all faults if any were recorded and shown to everyone.
I am a landrover tragic.
I was very impress as they are fully serviced even if they don't need it. I spent half the day under all of them.
everything was solid and serviced.
Price way over the top only because they were a novelty at the time 4000 plus.

one of the lovely ladys said they are selling in batches of roughly 30 at a time.
hang out for a few years and you will pick up this same vehicle at auction today for 13,000 in 3 years the market will be flooded the same vehicle will action for around 6 to 7000 dollars.

some sound advice.

My discovery 1 is a fantastic vehicle after 15,000 dollars worth of work and accessories.
will travel to any location and return with no issues.
These vehicles ready to go for 8000 dollars a bargain

there has been alot of very unhappy buyers at the aforementioned auction house
One case in particular is large numbers of ex army 6x6 Mack trucks that were sold with brown slips and listed as being ready for rego
but the buyers were knocked back on rego because the front axle mass exceeds Australian ADR's
What do you do with a truck that you cant register ?

I went to inspect vehicles there once before auction , they had brown slips stating they were completely roadworthy yet when i crawled underneath one of them i noticed the front brake discs were bright and shiney from recent use but the rear discs were completely covered in virgin untouched surface rust indicating the rear brake calipers were seized up.
how did they pass the brake test and brown slips ?
note that they have their own mechanics there who do the testing inhouse.

you see some funny things watching online auctions.

About 4 months ago i saw a unimog in fairly good condition with 139,000 k's that sold for 17 grand , other ones of varied condition sold between $24 - 34 grand each in the same auction , while another one had a dead engine , the bell housing , clutch and part of the transaxle were missing , the cabin was dinged from a rollover , drivers door twisted , bonnet missing , half the dashboard missing and it had been robbed of its seats , brake tanks and valving.
that one sold for $14,700

go figure ?

go figure again ... that a unimog sold for $ 76,000 in one of the first auctions while the 5 others in that auction went for $ 34 - 42,000

here is another useless fact.
The current 110 series Landrovers lasted 30 years
The new Mercedes G wagon replacing them is anticipated to have a service life of only 10 years
Initial trials of the G wagon saw 6 of them taken to The Kimberlies , only one returned intact.

and the G wagen costs taxpayers only $ 240,000 AUD each 8.(

 

[trenchfighter]

hmmmm the smell of my 2stoke dirtbike is smelling pretty good

 

[axeman]

would this be the same model as the one les hiddins drives, bush tucker man?.

Yes, sure was.
Mick
Just checked, Les hiddins land rover is a 110 used in the army between 1987 and 1990

 

[charlie123]

The uni mog is the only vehicle to todays date the has a differential at each wheel, thus more height and better rock crawling ability. Looking at kilawasps not so many, never judge a book by its cover, these things will climb up a right angle.

 

[axeman]

Drop a set of gearmaster cogs in the landie, a 2" lift and a set of lockers and It'll just about go anywhere too. Yes I know these things come standard in the moggy.
Mick

 

[charlie123]

what does it mean to have a brown slip

 

[HeadsUp]

The uni mog is the only vehicle to todays date the has a differential at each wheel, thus more height and better rock crawling ability. Looking at kilawasps not so many, never judge a book by its cover, these things will climb up a right angle.

thats not a diff on each wheel

its a portal axle

which means a large ring gear drives the axle , with a small pinion driving the ring gear allowing the Diff and main axles to be offset higher up giving them their 600 mm or so of ground clearance and 1200 mm fording depth

the actual diff is still in the middle

Yes . agree on the mountain goat theory , these things can leap tall buildings in a single bound ( almost )

pity their top speed is capped at about 89.99 km/hr unless you get new gears made for the portal axles , drop a different transfer case into it or drop in a gearbox from a european tractor whose brand name eludes me at this time

they are a very nice billy goat

59 killowatts ? a Nissan Leaf has more pony

but 4400 Nm of torque ? holy gazumpin gabboobies batman ! , a small block V8 puts out 500 Nm by comparison

 

[HeadsUp]

what does it mean to have a brown slip

dont worry mate , it can happen to anyone if the floor is wet when you're making that quick dash

but

but its also the heavy vehicle equivalent of a pink slip ( GVM over 4500 kg )

a blue slip is the inspection you do for a vehicle that has been out of rego for more than 3 months or so

but

but a blue slip can also be when you slip while making that quick dash and you yell out @#&!^% ! as you hit the floor

 

[charlie123]

They are a decent setup, but when i say differential i mean low gear high gear, pinion crown same as the extentiion

 

[charlie123]

Hahaha, I agree

 

[thesmithy]

Headsup,
I have heard the same from some buyers and even worse.
of course the ones they transported to the show would have been the absolute best in class.
needless to say I have not bought one.
non turbo, 5 cylinder isuzi diesel. Slow as a wet week max speed 100 kph.

I have this theory about 2nd hand vehicles........?
selling to up grade....why just maybe you need a newer model.......especially if the company is buying.
selling as its reached it's use by date.
selling as we can't afford to repair it.

buying a 4x4
just purchase what you can afford with all its faults and work you way through them.

Remember the people that complain about your brand of 4x4 most probably has never owned one.
There are plenty of good people on this forum that have a very sound knowledge on working on 4x4 vehicles. As well as most makes and models.

an old Aircraft engineer once said to me OIL IS CHEAPER THAT METAL.......how true was he..45 years ago.

 

[Village]

Yeah I been looking at the mogs on the auction, just not sure how they would fair these days in the field. We got them just before I got out, sure beat the mk3 and mk5's we use to have. Excellent off road, would sincerely love one or three, but the reliability issue and the cost of parts these days is the worry. Bought the wife a merc 3 years ago, bloody expensive every time something had to be done, was glad to see the back end of that thing.

But haven't convinced myself not to bid yet, personally the 6 x 8 macks we got at the same time, tickle my fantasy a bit more.