The Cause for 2014 and Your Own Interests

[Village]

Fellow Prospectors

After reviewing the continuing issues posted here on the forum, I have arrived at a point that members of the forum may want to consider the line Charity Starts at Home, in that for your cause for 2014, Would it not be worth consideration in establishing a fighting fund, to meet the expenses of a representative committee to lobby and partition the federal government for a national set of guidelines on prospecting.

I note, and this is not a derogatory statement, but more capitalisation on available time, that quiet a few members are of the retired set, hence providing them with more available time then most. The idea would be to petition the likes of Clive Palmer to establish a committee, comprising a representative from each states primary industries department, prospectors, and yes, even the greens, to

a. come together to establish a national set of guidelines and laws in relation to prospecting.

b. to evaluate the stipulations that exists in relation to prospecting, ie. methods that can be used, the descriptors employed to describe the same, so that on a national basis it is clear and transparent.

c. maybe even establish a national miners right,

anything else.

Personally I would donate towards the cause as I can see there is a lot of misunderstanding on both sides of the fence. I too, think thats such a committee's first charter would be to formulate a letter to the likes of all the big miners, including the like of clive, twiggy, gina and alines, asking for assistance and a donation. It is in every bodies interest.

I think you could get clive to convene the same, remember that at days end, it is the feral government who reaps the rewards from mining.

For your consideration

 

[Pr2cv]

Well written Village and a great idea,

I'm sure the likes of big Clive & Twiggy would be receptive to your suggestion.Not sure about the Feral govt though.
I am retired,but that doesn't mean I have lots of time to spare,as there are lots of things I still want to do before I either drop of the perch or become unable to continue my pursuits.

Pete

 

[madtuna]

Not too keen actually.

We have state bodies eg: NAPFA, APLA, PMVA etc that are doing a mighty fine job.

If a set of Federal guidelines were accepted you can bet your back teeth it would be at the expense of some of the freedoms already experienced by some states.

A quick example, If they adopted a national miners right and set a fee of say $25 per year, would we in WA lose our $25 for life miners right?

 

[Guest]

Agree with Madtuna! There are also too many different pieces of legislation in each state that would all need aligning to suit. It's a good thought but practically I don't think it would work & would take years to accomplish. Like Madtuna said some states may lose already hard fought for rights at its expense.
Better to support the already formed associations & leave them to work together imo.

 

[loamer]

Village - you raise some interesting comments. Here is my two-bob.

1. These are some of the various states and territories mining legislation that have to be dealt with.
ACT: Land (Planning and Environment) Act 1991; Northern Territory: Mining Act 1980; NSW: Mining Act 1992; Queensland: Mineral Resources Act 1989; South Australia: Mining Act 1971; Tasmania: Mineral Resources Development Act 1995; Victoria: Mineral Resources Development Act 1990; Western Australia: Mining Act 1978.
2. A raft of academic legal research has and is being conducted to review how the mining industry fits within state, territory and Commonwealth interests and legislation - see Anne M. Fitzgerald, Mining Agreements: Negotiated Frameworks in the Australian Minerals Sector, as an example.
3. As there are so many pieces of state legislation to contend with, the various prospecting bodies, as detailed above in madtuna's post, have been formed to lobby various political, government and private sector bodies to get a fair hearing for prospectors - both professional and hobbyists.
4. Within the hobbyist prospecting community there is not even a common consensus on what the various bodies should actually represent. To my great sadness, I have seen many posts on various forums that are negative in the extreme about various prospecting organisations. As such, several long-term members of the prospecting community have now distanced themselves from active participation in lobbying activities. I have a personal dislike (to put it mildly)for 'snipers' - people who contribute nothing to the debate in a rational manner and just sit back and criticise.
5. My personal opinion? I would hate to see this forum become politicised. If people feel the need to create another layer of lobbying, and it's the states and territories, not the Commonwealth, we have to deal with, then the matter should be taken elswhere. Nugget is trying to keep the forum neutral, as is, IMO, the correct and pragmatic stance.

These are not aimed at you or your post Village and I appreciate your passion and opinions.

 

[WalnLiz]

Totally agree with Loamer. There is plenty of avenues already in existence to lobby Government, and as individuals we have the choice to be active in them. I feel the forum should stay neutral and politically unbiased concentrating more on the enjoyment side of the hobby than the politics.

As the number of recreational prospectors increases our collective voices will increasingly be heard and supported by businesses and shops of the many small country towns we spend our tourist dollars in. This will have a flow on effect to the local councils and indirectly to the government in the form of tourism promotion. ( once at this stage amendments may become more favorable to our needs as prospectors.)

Lobby groups are a worthwhile cause....the same can be said for unions, but i for one would prefer not to be seen as a promoter of such groups in a forum environment. My opinion only,

Cheers Wal.

 

[richo966]

we should stay out of politics if you win you will upset one group and they will try and get back at us dirty thing we should stay out of that rubbish and just enjoy the chase and the freedoms we do have. We don't have people chasing us around trying to arrest us like in the old days more places to hunt will come with more people enjoying a good hobby they will have no choice but to open more places this forum is all about having fun and sharing ideas to help people enjoy there hobby and be happy

 

[thesmithy]

Well presented by the senior members of PA......it truly points to a neutral forum of which I am proud to be associated with.
Totally agree Wal.......as the number increase so does the noise......people wishing to change the way we live our lives are very worried about groups that have no real agenda other than having fun.
All along getting bigger and bigger......and having industry leaders pushing them selves over trying to get in on the action.

an old saying......but very relevant

SOMETIMES THE BEST FORM OF ACTION IS NO ACTION AT ALL.
cheers
TheSmithy
Merry Christmas to all my new found friends here on PA.

 

[Village]

Well guys

It's your choice I suppose, the barriers that you face don't exist to me. Personally being in the field there is no second thought given to prospectors, at any level of government, government works on a user pay system, what are your miners rights getting you? The local community support you feel that will add momentum to any movement, is closed with the till.

What you don't see is, like with the safety issues, breaches of current of laws, right or wrong, and the push by the greens against such activities, and to boot, prospectors getting lost, will eventually see the activities limited to small designated areas, kids parks.

It was just a thought, see through my time, and I'm only 48, I ve seen huge restrictions placed on the activity of, and just a point, the difference between an amateur prospector and a prospector, at todays rates, is one good pan.

It was just a thought based on the history of posts and concerns.

 

[richo966]

good idea but every thing is controlled today go against the greens in open way and they will attack you and call you all sorts of things you have to be really keen to change the nanny state mentality they will not give up control on any thing with out massive fight let the groups set up to fight that deal with it but one day we will have to stop the nanny state they will only be happy if we all sit in coffee shops and talk about how good we are to every one and how stupid every one is that dose not agree with them

 

[Village]

Well richo, I think it's a dead topic. It was just a thought. When tighter constraints prevent people from engaging, it is then that people reflect with the words "we should have". Like being stranded somewhere and hoping that someone else will pass to assist in the bush cause you weren't prepared.

 

[richo966]

mate out side pa I do get involved I have had meetings with members of parliament sent them letters been on the radio I do my bit mate

 

[madtuna]

Well guys

It's your choice I suppose, the barriers that you face don't exist to me. Personally being in the field there is no second thought given to prospectors, at any level of government, government works on a user pay system, what are your miners rights getting you? The local community support you feel that will add momentum to any movement, is closed with the till.

What you don't see is, like with the safety issues, breaches of current of laws, right or wrong, and the push by the greens against such activities, and to boot, prospectors getting lost, will eventually see the activities limited to small designated areas, kids parks.

It was just a thought, see through my time, and I'm only 48, I ve seen huge restrictions placed on the activity of, and just a point, the difference between an amateur prospector and a prospector, at todays rates, is one good pan.

It was just a thought based on the history of posts and concerns.

Hi village,
a miners right gives you just that ...rights.
Hence why NSW is trying to re establish the miners right, at the moment they have no rights.
Just curious as to why you say "the barriers you face don't exist to me" don't you have to work within the same rules, regulations and boundaries as the rest of us?

Cheers,

Steve

 

[Guest]

"the barriers you face don't exist to me" don't you have to work within the same rules, regulations and boundaries as the rest of us?

Hmm.... I don't think he does? :lol:

Oh do love hard rock prospecting, like explosives, licensed for it too, makes life so easy, and I know not on a miners right, but hey when you on private property, that wall, or embarkment is dangerous and needs to be made safe. And you have no idea how easy defused clay and soil from a blast flows through a trommel.

 

[madtuna]

Licened shot firer or not, being on private property does not entitle one to mine with explosives.
Illegal activities should not be promoted on open forums which we know are monitored by the various governing bodies that regulate our pastime, also which may encourage new chums to engage in dangerous activities.

 

[Village]

I don't think that most in forum really would like to know to be honest with you. But as briefed over in the intro, and maybe just a little more to clear the skies. I was raised in a family prospectors, my toys were a pan and a pick at 7 years old. I worked as a contract Field Geologist, had for many many years. Two degrees, one a Bachelor of Science in Geology, and another in Geophysics.

Whilst I was here, Cruising for the information, The abundance of mis information downloaded, and posted as theorem, rather then the actual science, I looked to nudge a few people in the right direction, as way of repaying for the advise I received. I have noted this area, the equity in access to say, was indeed in need of attention if the field, our heritage as Australians, was to continue. Now from a professional point of view you may wish to reread my initial comments and know that these were derived by underlying industry feelings, yes the greens will only get worst, and yes you do need a national set of guidelines, agreed by all states and territories. And how, where and when needs to be defined on a national basis. Want to support a cause, like I said charity starts at home.

Madtuna, you say "also which may encourage new chums to engage in dangerous activities". The stuff I see on here frightens me at times, Ideas, wrongly formed opinions on geology, the oversight of the wealth of information that can lead people. Be honest with yourself, take a look at the posts on the PLB issue, seriously, your lying in a hole, or dropped down a shaft, or tripped over a rock and broke your leg and have a gaping head wound, you want to do a helmet resection to find your position, or wait seven hours for maybe assistance to find you and that you will be conscious, please.

mbasko, well not really, sure I go through a set motions every time, private property etc, it's called due diligence, I have access to a few more in depth databases then most but generally no. You obtain a right to mine, which in the event you wish to sell your concession of 5 grams per day, rightfully allows the same. I can research an area, take samples for assay, even the grey area of test holes depending on number and depth can fly under before the EL process.

In our business, Exploration leases (EL)are easy, drill holes, excavate, blast for fun if you like within a documented set of limitations. So yes, and yes I have four limbs with 5 extensions on each, all I was born with. Barriers come about through no true understanding, on both sides when it comes to government, legislation and it's application. I have effectively, nearly on 30 years proven experience in geology, and in particular the auriferous field, I often whilst waiting for information to download, or maps to build, just read the posts, where people deter, hinder or a just plain wrong, I'll try, probably not as successful as I would like, to be subtle, correct where it's going wrong. From memory your sister site has been running since about 2006-07.

So as I said, It was just a thought based on the history of posts and concerns.

Take it, leave it, I think the topic is dead.

If you think that my posts aren't constructive then say so, if you think Im wrong well say so. I hope these weren't cheap shots.

 

[WalnLiz]

You have many valid concerns Village and everybody is entitled to their opinion.

There are many knowledgeable members on this forum both experience based, and academically based, who give their knowledge freely to all members both new or experienced in prospecting. Sure all the advice is not always 100% correct and that is why several topics end up in "friendly" debate.

The advice is however given to the best knowledge of the poster and is not intended to be marked as a geology assignment at tertiary level.

This forum has nothing to do with a "Sister Forum", (don't even know what you mean by that), as we are a unique forum based on friendly atmosphere, and a keenness to promote prospecting as a pleasurable pastime.

Members have a personal choice here, and if they don't like the forum there are many others to chose from. The sort of conflicts which posts like this nurture are usually a result of political pressure, and there is more to the big picture than to be politically correct. Politics in the long run virtually always results in division, and that's not what constitutes the family friendly atmosphere which we all enjoy on this site. My opinion only.

Cheers Wal

 

[Village]

Well Wal

if its not right, and if that information sways someone to commit to action, and that action kills or mane's, is it right. Look my post was based on the concerns of sample of the population that I have observed in here. The reference to your sister forum, and it's age was to demonstrate that these concerns on "rights" have been on going for at least to my knowledge 6 or 7 years. 7 years ago, NSW forests didn't want to know about fossicking permits, and fees and alike. Now where are your at? Like I said dead issue, not even sure why we are still throwing it around.

I agree whole heartedly on the promotion issue. Help any bugger in the field, from a tyre, to searching for a missing prospector. Which leads to this, on the opinion issue, "is not intended to be marked as a geology assignment at tertiary", but if they are wrong on so many levels, is it wrong to correct them, so the the original recipient is not sent off on some misguided tangent to which, he may expend energy and money in pursuit of bad advice, or is better to sit back and say nothing?

 

[thesmithy]

I think there is a kangaroo short in the top paddock.

Hey Wal & liz have a merry merry Christmas
Cheers
TheSmithy

 

[WalnLiz]

Agree with you Village that it's a dead issue not worth pursuing. We fossicked in state forests for close to 50 years with no problems or conflict with rangers...even ran our dredges in state forests during those early years.

Now they have a permit system to get in on the act and make some money from it, and have some control over activities. They still have no issues from us using the forest, and only education of the prospectors will keep access open.(and that's where "good" forums come in).

No one is saying to sit on the fence when wrong advice is given, if it's difinitive advice, and not an opinion, the members will always benefit from the correction. Just that on other forums I've been on, opinionated advice quite often causes animosity and threads can quite often turn nasty for insignificant reasons.....that's all I will say on the subject.

Cheers Wal.