Off the grid

[condor22]

.......However we still need our grids and supply for the majority of population to function, the more solar panels put up the higher the bill for everyone else....

Hope this helps the general sense of things and don't get me wrong I loved Adelaide when I lived there but is there still more hydroponic shops than servos, no wonder theirs power problems

After the initial ramp up of solar panels where people got more for their solar per kWH than they paid for their grid supply, those installing grid feed solar now will only get 6 cents or so nowadays. So where we are paying in excess of 30 cents kWH for grid power, that solar won't cost us more.

The bigger issue is that if there is too much solar input to the base load and there is a very quick cover of cloud over the sun, then the network gets a sudden loss of generation. This can cause an overload and then we get circuit tripped load shedding. That is also why the energy companies put a limit on the size of an individuals solar sizing. There has to be a finite limit on what % of direct input there is.

This is why in a caravan we don't actually use the power directly from a solar panel, but from a battery that is charged from the panel. The battery apart from supplying power after solar charging stops, acts like a shock absorber to the system. The grid is similar but on a much larger scale.

Given the latest press on the PMs 50% size increase in 4-7 years, I still don't hold much hope for a S.A. power improvement. Why do I think this way? Well, given that NSW gets 1st dibs on Murray water, followed by VIC even more and having seen the net result at the lower lakes in SA and the Murray mouth, I kind of think any excess power from the Snowies will head East well before it heads West. Therefore any additional base load generation within this State, for this State and managed by this State can only be a good thing.

BTW I did a Hydroponics search on the Yellow Pages - Adelaide 42 hits - Melbourne 60 hits, you were saying, lol

 

[Norvic]

Madtuna,
Love to know some details of your off-grid system. Mine basically is Exide 1080 a/hr 48v Pb battery bank, 3000 odd watts Sharp solar, Selectronic 4200 Inverter(coupled to PC), Outback 60amp regulator all running f/f 2 door fridge, f/f upright freezer, bar fridge, W/machine, TV, flouros etc etc as per norm 240 household. 11+ years on clock, and still going strong. Water from bore pumped by Lorentz solar pump approx 500watt solar.

Solar Hot system, and 3 useless wind turbines that make it look enviro-friendly or enviro-menacing (depending on ones point of view) on semi-desert rocky 220 acre refirement block (no gold, 6 moosteers), that has 1km of HV power line running through it. Even run a MIG welder in mid of day (carefully) 6Kva Diesel generator coupled to 50amp 48v battery charger for those few days of no sun and to fire 240v smelter. Probably use 40l diesel/yr, mainly once/mth 1hr run to keep the hornets out.

 

[Gem in I]

Why is it even necessary to put solar power back to the grid anyway if it risks a circuit tripped load shedding issue ? After talking to some linesman they suggest that most if not all of that returned power is lost at the transformers.

So the bigger issue would be what do we do with power companies if we only needed them for street lights. They may have to register as a religion to make running feasible.

I did a google search BTW 2013 population vic 5.791 million - pop s.a. 1.677 mill. not to mention the hydro stores that stacked a few shovels and registered as hardwares :8 . not bad per head of population and I agree that n.s.w. and vic should compensate s.a. (per head of pop.) for extracting or at least repairing damage caused from their actions like Goolwa having to be dredged for example. I hope s.a. does become the battery state rather than the battered example.

 

[condor22]

I thought you might use the per head of population card.......

 

[Rosswab]

Just wondering, considering all the b#*l$!t surrounding the current energy debate involving our ridiculous shortfall of natural gas.... has anyone gone "off grid" to be self sufficient with their energy needs.
Considering the future cost and uncertainty of reliable power, I am seriously considering this option myself,..... solar, wind, battery storage. Not sure how much it would cost...

Want to get your mind blown? Look at zero point energy generators and some of the links it will take you to quantum physics and my favourite, quantum levitation

I'm sure with some digging around you can find some cool ideas and experiments to do regarding energy

For a start just check YouTube for zero point energy generators

Fascinating

 

[condor22]

We should all search for a "Stargate" to find Atlantis, lol

 

[OzzieAu]

Pretty cool stuff Rosswab, another source of clean energy.... the challenge would be to upscale it for commercial and domestic consumption, probably along way off yet. But hey, it'll happen one day....my grandkids may still have a future yet. :lol:

 

[HeadsUp]

If you guys have property with a river flowing through it and at least 5 metres of fall ( head ) , then mini hydro electric turbines have over 90 % efficiency.

solar has 11 % at best , wind turbines can never be higher than 56 % efficiency ( Betts factor ) , but hydro electric kicks ass if you are lucky enough to have the water and height.

another option is that if you're not often home during the day and your load from solar panels is lower , then pump water from a low creek during the day when you have plenty of sunshine on tap , store it in a tank on the highest ground and then in the evening when you have no sun for the solar source you can release the water to flow down through your mini hydro generator .

If you do go with a backup battery / inverter system then some people use that as a backup to run pumps and spray bars on the roof for bushfire protection ~ multitasking is good when you cant rely on grid .

 

[OzzieAu]

Wow, more options.... mini hydro...I wish, some good thoughts surfacing though. What else is out there?
Perhaps wave and tide energy? Just got to build my dream home in a sunny spot, on a hill, by a river, near the windy coast and have a generator and bloody big battery!!
Better buy some lottery tickets lol. {)

 

[HeadsUp]

Madtuna,
Love to know some details of your off-grid system. Mine basically is Exide 1080 a/hr 48v Pb battery bank, 3000 odd watts Sharp solar, Selectronic 4200 Inverter(coupled to PC), Outback 60amp regulator all running f/f 2 door fridge, f/f upright freezer, bar fridge, W/machine, TV, flouros etc etc as per norm 240 household. 11+ years on clock, and still going strong. Water from bore pumped by Lorentz solar pump approx 500watt solar.

Solar Hot system, and 3 useless wind turbines that make it look enviro-friendly or enviro-menacing (depending on ones point of view) on semi-desert rocky 220 acre refirement block (no gold, 6 moosteers), that has 1km of HV power line running through it. Even run a MIG welder in mid of day (carefully) 6Kva Diesel generator coupled to 50amp 48v battery charger for those few days of no sun and to fire 240v smelter. Probably use 40l diesel/yr, mainly once/mth 1hr run to keep the hornets out.

Norvic , what size and type are the wind turbines ?

and what is the wind data for your area ?

 

[HeadsUp]

Wow, more options.... mini hydro...I wish, some good thoughts surfacing though. What else is out there?
Perhaps wave and tide energy? Just got to build my dream home in a sunny spot, on a hill, by a river, near the windy coast and have a generator and bloody big battery!!
Better buy some lottery tickets lol. {)

South Australia is one of the best spots in oz for wind turbines if you dont factor in bird kills .

Wave generators have been done and i love the concept but storms and corrosion issues make it a megabitch of an industry.

http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/2193950/photos-port-wave-generator-removal-in-doubt/

 

[HeadsUp]

If you guys have property with a river flowing through it and at least 5 metres of fall ( head ) , then mini hydro electric turbines have over 90 % efficiency.

solar has 11 % at best , wind turbines can never be higher than 56 % efficiency ( Betts factor ) , but hydro electric kicks ass if you are lucky enough to have the water and height.

another option is that if you're not often home during the day and your load from solar panels is lower , then pump water from a low creek during the day when you have plenty of sunshine on tap , store it in a tank on the highest ground and then in the evening when you have no sun for the solar source you can release the water to flow down through your mini hydro generator .

If you do go with a backup battery / inverter system then some people use that as a backup to run pumps and spray bars on the roof for bushfire protection ~ multitasking is good when you cant rely on grid .

PS... forgot to add.

In NSW i am told that if you have a river or creek on your property that doesnt have a name , then you dont need to get approval from any govt department to install hydroelectric .

If the river is named then you have to jump through bureaucratic hoops for "official" approval.

 

[cairnspom]

If you guys have property with a river flowing through it and at least 5 metres of fall ( head ) , then mini hydro electric turbines have over 90 % efficiency.

solar has 11 % at best , wind turbines can never be higher than 56 % efficiency ( Betts factor ) , but hydro electric kicks ass if you are lucky enough to have the water and height.

another option is that if you're not often home during the day and your load from solar panels is lower , then pump water from a low creek during the day when you have plenty of sunshine on tap , store it in a tank on the highest ground and then in the evening when you have no sun for the solar source you can release the water to flow down through your mini hydro generator .

If you do go with a backup battery / inverter system then some people use that as a backup to run pumps and spray bars on the roof for bushfire protection ~ multitasking is good when you cant rely on grid .

Interesting! I have often wondered what sort of quantity of water you might need to make a 'sealed' pumped hydro system for a single property using solar to pump,and hydro to supply power outside of daylight hours.

 

[OzzieAu]

I'd say you would be living in the right spot to consider pumped hydro.. CAIRNSpom.

 

[Norvic]

Size and type of wind generators is totally irrelevant, to get a wind turbine into clean non-turbulent air you need to be well above what we as individual with our limited resources can do. Mine have reached their end of life eg. the galvanised stay wires that hold them up are past their use by dates, plus I`m tired of the maintenance in contrast to the solar cells I have ( some 30 years old) are still producing with zilch maintenance.

Wind turbines are a not the go, my experience tells me that. They have proven to be a total waste of my resources, I suspect in 20 years that will also be proven overall, lot of rhetoric about but bugger all life experience, solar in this sunny country is the go, its problem is it is passive and not out there in peoples faces. What is better to watch a solar cell produce or watch a wind turbines blades spinning around???? Wind power good for the masses to make em feel good, give them that satisfying feeling that they are combatting that "dirty smelly black gold" (that despite that rhetoric has given us our high standard of living), solar the producer.....just the quiet achiever. Sadly regardless which you believe in, none of the "alternative" or "renewable" energy producers are made using "alternative" or "renewable" energy..................a lot of fossil fuel and other resources go into their making.

 

[Marty]

I went for a 2nd system on the shed roof with lithium batteries for storage , 1st system was a 3kw and 2nd 6.38wk giving me close to a 10 kw system , my power bill used to be around the 28kwh per day , today with a shitty overcast day , rain and everything else that is happening on the east coat of NSW atm it still generated 12.9kwh and the batteries take care of the rest for when the panels are not producing , todays grid consumption was 0.49kwh
My system is not a Tesla and I'm about to buy a 3rd battery for it , in total I have 34 panels on the shed roof 3 batteries ,14.4kwh storage for 17.5k installed

I'm looking forward to the day , as my setup will allow me to go off-grid during the next 3 years or so , my last power bill was around $750 next meter read is on 6/4/17 and the reading after that will show how little the following bill shall be

Marty

 

[madtuna]

Madtuna,
Love to know some details of your off-grid system. Mine basically is Exide 1080 a/hr 48v Pb battery bank, 3000 odd watts Sharp solar, Selectronic 4200 Inverter(coupled to PC), Outback 60amp regulator all running f/f 2 door fridge, f/f upright freezer, bar fridge, W/machine, TV, flouros etc etc as per norm 240 household. 11+ years on clock, and still going strong. Water from bore pumped by Lorentz solar pump approx 500watt solar.

Solar Hot system, and 3 useless wind turbines that make it look enviro-friendly or enviro-menacing (depending on ones point of view) on semi-desert rocky 220 acre refirement block (no gold, 6 moosteers), that has 1km of HV power line running through it. Even run a MIG welder in mid of day (carefully) 6Kva Diesel generator coupled to 50amp 48v battery charger for those few days of no sun and to fire 240v smelter. Probably use 40l diesel/yr, mainly once/mth 1hr run to keep the hornets out.

Mate, I'll take a look tomorrow if I remember.

It's an older system, installed in about 2000 and is ultra reliable though the batteries are starting to show their age. Could also be a bit bigger but as it's only me here they suffice.
I usually throw the gen on for a couple of hours every 2 or three days just to top up.

 

[Occasional_panner]

Size and type of wind generators is totally irrelevant, to get a wind turbine into clean non-turbulent air you need to be well above what we as individual with our limited resources can do. Mine have reached their end of life eg. the galvanised stay wires that hold them up are past their use by dates, plus I`m tired of the maintenance in contrast to the solar cells I have ( some 30 years old) are still producing with zilch maintenance.

Wind turbines are a not the go, my experience tells me that. They have proven to be a total waste of my resources, I suspect in 20 years that will also be proven overall, lot of rhetoric about but bugger all life experience, solar in this sunny country is the go, its problem is it is passive and not out there in peoples faces. What is better to watch a solar cell produce or watch a wind turbines blades spinning around???? Wind power good for the masses to make em feel good, give them that satisfying feeling that they are combatting that "dirty smelly black gold" (that despite that rhetoric has given us our high standard of living), solar the producer.....just the quiet achiever. Sadly regardless which you believe in, none of the "alternative" or "renewable" energy producers are made using "alternative" or "renewable" energy..................a lot of fossil fuel and other resources go into their making.

That's sad to hear, what type of turbines are you using?

 

[HeadsUp]

govt is discussing doing pumped hydro in the news today for the snowy scheme . O

I didn't know it was called pumped hydro , it's just an idea I had from 20 years ago when I heard guys complaining about the limitations of having solar without backup batteries .

Nice to hear some of you guys have found battery backup to be viable for you.

It's not silly to value add what resources you already have but being a govt project it will probably be done in the wrong place at 20 times over realistic price.

There are online calculators for mini hydro to match expected demand with head , flow rate, nozzle size and pelton wheel design.

From the research I did years ago , pelton wheels are the bees knees for consistent energy output , it becomes more usable with high head figures.

From memory you can pull 3 - 5 kilowatts from 50 meters head , 50 - 75 mm supply pipe from source and a 10 - 12 mm jet.

I just checked online , it's more like 2.7 kW from 50 meters head and 75 - 100 mm pipe

 

[limpalot]

Been thinking of up dating our solar system, absolutly pissoff with $500 year Service Charge to have the meter on the wall; + the Kw useage cost. The theives increased the cost 50% from 2012 - 2015, and our govt approved this, bit above 3% inflation.
Was thinking wind, or a Solar tracking system. Have to get batterys too.