Off the grid

[OzzieAu]

Just wondering, considering all the b#*l$!t surrounding the current energy debate involving our ridiculous shortfall of natural gas.... has anyone gone "off grid" to be self sufficient with their energy needs.
Considering the future cost and uncertainty of reliable power, I am seriously considering this option myself,..... solar, wind, battery storage. Not sure how much it would cost...

 

[Occasional_panner]

Many moons ago I was, that was in the country though.
Wind turbines are fantastic value for money, BUT it has to be in a good location, otherwise you are wasting your time, you can't use them in the burbs, otherwise I'd do it myself.
48v is the best system, you'll need to spend big bucks, 15k minimum, if relying on solar only you could double or triple that.
There are plenty of energy calculators online that will give you an idea of what size system and bank size you'll need.
I used a small stationary engine with a rewired F&P motor with a 2.5/1 drive that gave about 800w as a backup to feed the bank when AC was used etc, or just to top up when low. That was very efficient and a cheap build.
I see you are in Adelaide, maybe a good idea to get a diesel backup generator and get a sparky to wire it up to the switchboard, so it doesn't feed back to the lines. (don't try to do this yourself, very important to get that bit right)

Edit, once you are off grid you then and only then realize how much bloody power you actually use, then you become frugal with it.
For most city lifestyle people you would need a system costing $60k, going off grid unless you make turbines yourself (and it's not that hard) is very costly.
Big inverters are expensive and battery banks that look like the size of a warehouse surprisingly run out very quickly.

 

[shivan]

We just recently got solar installed to try and help offset the price of our electricity. So far it works really well if we try to do more in the daytime and less at night, but to be totally sufficient we would need more panels and some batteries. But the batteries are rather expesive at the moment i believe.
We got 10 panels and a 2.65KW converter, the installation was covered by the solar rebate and we will pay the converter and panels off over 4 years, hopefully with the money we save on the electricity bill if all goes to plan.

 

[cairnspom]

Interesting thought! I have often wondered, how much water, and how high you would need for a solar/pumped water system for a single property, and whether it could be practical?

 

[Occasional_panner]

We just recently got solar installed to try and help offset the price of our electricity. So far it works really well if we try to do more in the daytime and less at night, but to be totally sufficient we would need more panels and some batteries. But the batteries are rather expesive at the moment i believe.
We got 10 panels and a 2.65KW converter, the installation was covered by the solar rebate and we will pay the converter and panels off over 4 years, hopefully with the money we save on the electricity bill if all goes to plan.

That's a grid tied system you have, when the mains go down, so will your system.
Off grid is totally different and costly.

 

[OzzieAu]

Some good thoughts there panner, I am in the burbs, allbeit in an elevated location on the South coast, so plenty of wind. Hadn't considered the diesel option..... would need to consider the neighbors though.
My ideal plan would be to sell up and move to a rural location, set up my "system" and raise the finger to those greedy energy corps. ]

 

[RM Outback]

Like you OzzieAu I'm considering it, it'll only happen once the new house goes up, a few years off yet but definitely a goal. The new house being the main issue and working through the costs of what we want and need. We will definitely go off grid the only problem is I'll need a large genset to power the shed when I need to. The genset will also be linked to top up batteries when needed. I'll be installing as much 12 volt as I can.

Great thread looking forward to the info being shared :Y:.

 

[OzzieAu]

That's a great goal there RM... I think it's the way of the future.
Wish you all the success with it. :rainbow:

 

[xcvator]

Check out the latest "tesla" batteries some pretty amazing figures and prices coming out from them atm :Y:

 

[madtuna]

haven't paid a power bill in years Closest power line would be 40klms away

Solar, diesel back up

 

[shivan]

That's a grid tied system you have, when the mains go down, so will your system.
Off grid is totally different and costly.

I did not say we were off the grid, just mentioning our setup at the moment. If we did add batteries though we would still have power if the mains went down, but at the moment you are right we are still very grid dependant. One step at a time

 

[condor22]

There are a number of providers, the one I'm looking at is called a Solar Hybrid system. There are a number of points here;

The solar tariff grid feed systems have a limited input i.e. your energy provider may only want 2kW of input and will pay as little as 6c / kW. However you may be able to generate 5kW, 3 of which is wasted.

So, what I'm looking at is a 10kW system that has battery storage at the same time as being grid connected. The way it works is - during the day you feed in what your energy provider maximum is and the surplus charges your batteries. Then once the solar stops charging at dusk it disconnects from the grid and your batteries feed an inverter for your power needs, lights, TV, fridges etc. I need to investigate further as to what size battery bank is needed and that depends on the load size and time.

The system is automatic and switches within milli seconds, so is seemless.

Tesla uses Lithium batteries whereas others like SMA don't. I'm still looking, but the SMA solution is cheaper.

The net result is cheaper grid power during the day with the feed in and free power at night from your own system. It also automatically switches if the grid goes down.
Obviously the heavier loads I might use should occur when on grid, washing machines, vacuum cleaners etc.

Location is also a factor re air conditioning and the ability to reconnect to the grid if needed.

 

[user 7268]

Going thru this at the moment and here is a reply from supplier regards use and cost reduction on quarterly bill.
Two things killing solar at the moment are a set max buy back quantity and the low kw price being paid. Wish I had hooked up a few years ago when buy back was unlimited and over 40 cents a kw :/ With my useage and calculations as below I would still see a quarterly account of approx $300 plus and hence still looking as unless I can get account to near zero just not going with it. Apart from huge quarterly bills constantly losing grid power is my main motivation for looking at alternatives and would love to go stand alone but it's big bucks to do so .................... in fact would probably never see me recover my money in years left

Got your text today thanks.
a 6.24kw solar system has the potential to input 34kwh/day from the sun. Bare in mind It wont do this due to being Export controlled (Ergon's requirements)
According to your Bill you use around 20kwh/day on T11, and 7kwh/day on hot water tariff
So if we do an estimated* day time usage you would use around %75 of your bill so around 15kwh/day, and if we installed a timer on your hot water you would then put the 7kwh onto the T11
So a total of 22kwh/day This is what we can work on covering with the solar, and if we put the right solar system on we can later on add batteries to cover the night usage.
So with the Excess panels (6.24kw) we can safely assume that we will cover this usage Taking into account some bad weather. So the $ savings would be around $5.28/day which amounts to $485/Quarter and $1943/yr. This amounts to a 3.3yr payback.
*Note you can get an exact by reading the meter in the morning and afternoon and getting the difference. If you do this for a week you will get an accurate estimate on Day time use.

 

[Norvic]

The Missus and I are totally off-grid have been for 11 years. 1+ ton of batteries, mainly solar with 3 "useless" toy wind turbines, if you spend the $ wisely up front very easy, doable and little drama. However it is not like connecting to the grid, where you need have no working knowledge or commitment. (ie. just switch and go) Off-grid in an on-grid society requires some commitment and understanding. But this is changing as we become aware, tis the way to go, the way of the future.

 

[Occasional_panner]

Yes going off grid requires everyone in the house to have at least some understanding on loads and capabilities of a system.
Most city people wouldn't think twice about using a dishwasher, clothes dryer, hair dryer and a few other appliances all at once. If you add up the loads of all these you could be looking at 8000 watts.
Even on a 48v system that's a whopping 166 amps! And at 12v 666amps! You'll need a hell of a lot of batteries to run that, a bloody big expensive pure sine wave inverter and some serious cables too.
One other thing is most people over estimate what solar panels produce, a lot of people's panel installs in metro areas would barely have enough output to run a blow dryer.

For anyone in rural areas look into axial flux wind turbines.

 

[Bacchus]

Just completed due diligence for solar with grid connection on new house we are building although not massive users of electricity we look like " over panelling " to 7 kW system , 6 kW SMA inverter and taking up Origin Electricity current offer of 12 c feed in tariff. For what we use this will return bugger all usage bill and a fair chunk of the $71 per qtr supply charge . Plan is to purchase either Tesla power wall or Zen energy battery system in a few years as the price is dropping quickly but still not viable for us at moment with 10 year approx usage life dependent on cycles. this site http://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php allows you to put panels on a satellite photo of your roof and calculate your solar generation with exact panel placement for best am/ noon/ pm usage and with info from a segmented elec bill this site https://www.solarquotes.com.au/index_a.html can calculate the rest . Govt rebates reduce Jan 1 each year . Not off grid but next best thing for non rural areas .

 

[DropBear]

If you live in SA, you might want to feed as much back into the grid as you can... lol

But all seriousness, there are so many good youtube videos about off grid systems and setups.
Not as hard as you may think, and if you can source your gear yourself it makes it cheaper.

Alibaba - if you have an ABN

Look for latest technology, don't get sold the old stuff.

Tesla Batteries are great, there is also a few Aussie companies that have the same systems with different branding.
You can also build your own systems, the batteries need to be replaced ever so often and just keep an eye on the health of them.

i would love to live 100% offgrid... One day i will get there.

 

[condor22]

If you live in SA, you might want to feed as much back into the grid as you can... lol

But all seriousness, there are so many good youtube videos about off grid systems and setups.
Not as hard as you may think, and if you can source your gear yourself it makes it cheaper.

Alibaba - if you have an ABN

Look for latest technology, don't get sold the old stuff.

Tesla Batteries are great, there is also a few Aussie companies that have the same systems with different branding.
You can also build your own systems, the batteries need to be replaced ever so often and just keep an eye on the health of them.

i would love to live 100% offgrid... One day i will get there.

I do live in SA, the problem with feeding the Grid is when it goes down, you got zip, zilch, nada coming back at ya.

There's a lot of crap flying re S.A.'s power. First the State wide blackout last September was a storm related incident that took down a dozen or more High Tension pylons. The immediate effect overloaded the remaining system and tripped all breakers to protect the system. It would not have mattered if the power was solar/wind or base load coal fired power stations, the system would have still shut down. The political stoush from all sides was irrelevant.

A second power down was caused by a fault in the inter link between VIC and SA.

What is of more importance is this; The power system is privatised, as such it goes to supply and demand and when demand in any commodity outstrips supply the price goes up. So what occurs is, if the price goes up and the middleman won't pay that price (which gets passed on to us) then the provider limits supply and load shedding occurs. This occurs when we least want it i.e. hot weather, so we sit in stifling hot houses watching the food in our fridges go to waste.

I have a caravan and use a generator with I, so have backup. My Honda 2kVA will run all my fridges, TV and a couple of lights.

BTW - during the Sep blackout (it was a cold day) we were down for over 8 hours, my wife went to bed early, I went out to the caravan, ran the diesel heater and the TV (12v) and sat there thinking to myself, here I am, probably one of very few in the state watching TV. The irony of this, was that all of the TV stations had backup generation and were on air, whilst one of our hospitals was in deep s**t because there backup generator failed and their second backup also failed.

 

[OzzieAu]

Well said Condor, the misinformation about SA's power failures by the Feds is galling! Actually in 10 yrs. time we will be considered as the leaders in how to provide renewable energy and saving the environment at the same time.
Just today AGL announced in Adelaide the opening of the WORLD'S largest VPP or virtual private power network, where a collective of private homes with solar and battery storage have interconnected to form a mini power plant to feed excess energy back into the grid.
Real people power imho!!!
Stuff the national grid,.....in the future we can have a network of VPP's supplying all our needs....leave the coal in the ground.

 

[Gem in I]

I worked on a fellas property 2 weeks ago - semi rural and he was totally off grid. 24 panels for 24 batteries locked in a reinforced cage linked to a large control board automated by a laptop with programs installed knowing what was coming and going with input of energy and output of each appliance. The batteries are expected to have a 20 year life span and his son had to have minimal relevant training with the system a bit like when learning to drive a car but easier as was explained to me.
His son lives on the property with wife and 2 kids as does the owner (father) with his wife and they are building a third smaller house currently.

The cost was $35 000 he said, the whole setup came from Germany and the only thing he kept his eye on was a series of about 6 blinking lights which had to do with battery storage and the lowest it has hit was 4 lights on cloudy weeks but topped up again within a sunny day. Sorry not a lot of technical jargon for you but from what I see I am totally impressed. However we still need our grids and supply for the majority of population to function, the more solar panels put up the higher the bill for everyone else.

He was forced to look at this as an option 3 yrs ago because his 2 neighbours were prepared to put up a fight of accessing their mains also at a cost to him of $60 000 so he may have had to put a small sub station out the front of his property at an additional $30 000.

Hope this helps the general sense of things and don't get me wrong I loved Adelaide when I lived there but is there still more hydroponic shops than servos, no wonder theirs power problems