NSW Highbanking - what is the current state of play?

[shivan]

I personally have avoided Nundle, just because of how unclear things are there.

Maybe as a group we could find a way to get this sorted out once and for all? Though no idea how that would work out.
Maybe we need to get a lawyer interested in prospecting

 

[headbut]

Hi All,
I know of one exception to the riparian zone rule, not that it applies to prospecting though. There are probably more.
The boundary of the property owned by the Smith's at Dargle on the Hawkesbury River takes in half of the river.

Cheers
Mick

My wife is doing a realestate course & part of that are the different titles of NSW , the 1st being old system title where boundaries are the middle of the waterways, as Mick staes
But we still have no way of knowing if this is true , of the respective land owner

Cheers Paul

 

[kleinman98]

Hi All,
I know of one exception to the riparian zone rule, not that it applies to prospecting though. There are probably more.
The boundary of the property owned by the Smith's at Dargle on the Hawkesbury River takes in half of the river.

Cheers
Mick

My wife is doing a realestate course & part of that are the different titles of NSW , the 1st being old system title where boundaries are the middle of the waterways, as Mick staes
But we still have no way of knowing if this is true , of the respective land owner

Cheers Paul

You would think that went out with the ark after people realised that water courses change direction over time and intervention. If someone dammed the river up stream where would the boundary be then.

 

[kleinman98]

Best thing would be to get onto their local council and get the boundary maps. Tamworth regional I believe. Is there anyone on the forum that knows the area or lives there that could check? I have no idea about the area as I have never been there.

 

[thesmithy]

For the last time....Tamworth council abide by the guidlines set out for Fossicking laws in NSW.
Follow the guidlines......there is no issues.
Don't undermine banks.
Fill in holes
Don't discharge turbid water back into waterway.
Replace large rocks to there original sight.
do not use any mechanical power operated machinary to excavate material.

The pump is used for transfering water from one location to another...so long as it remains in the flood plain.
Enough said.

Please read the miners Act it is in black and white for all to see.

 

[Twapster]

I understand that clearly however what's the go with the signs. If they are illegal, why are they still there? Also if local rules over ride state rules then there is a problem if the town of Nundle decides they wish to ban right handed blokes with no hair that drive a 4wd and carry green pans - im rooted.

If you are indeed correct about Tamworth Council.....ill be bringing an angle grinder with me! Something seems to be missing here and ive seen the potential fines and while I love my gold hunting, its a lot of big nuggets to start paying court fees if im the bloke pinged for sticking my highbanker out.....so to speak. Let alone the "assault charges" Nundle guy may add to the confrontation.

Id really like something in black and white and so far the issue still appears cloudy given the "signage" issue.

Peter

 

[thesmithy]

Twapster mate how black and white do we have to be
THE NSW FOSSICKING ACT
The Tamworth council did not put the signs up.
Fulerton did.
He even has signs on the TSR near the old diggings saying private property keep out.
These signs are on crown land.

my personal GPS shows all crown land as dark green. Out side of that area is private land.
the only difference is it state forest or national park or TSR. Or nature reserve.

As stated before carry the miners act in your kip as well as the NSW fossicking regulations and your forest permit for that area if in forest.

As wal has stated the individual that fronted court was dredging.

No person or persons have ever been prosecuted in nsw for using a High Banker.......if you think you may be the first you would be the most unlucky chap about.
cheers Thesmithy.

 

[Twapster]

As long as u guys pay the fine....im your man!

 

[thesmithy]

I will defend you.....with good behavior and time served you should be home for christmas 2022.
I have never lost a case to date.
Oh thats right I have never had to defend anyone before either.
I will just plead insanity I didn't know what I was doing.
cheers.

 

[SinHof]

Hi Girls and Boys,
A quick question? reference in a couple of posts above indicated that a person by the name of Fulerton put up the signs along the river; does this mean there are now two individuals; the other being Nundle Guy are working to make life difficult for prospectors and fossickers.
Cheers, SinHof.

 

[Guest]

Fellas there is no such thing as the NSW FOSSICKING ACT. There is guidelines (A Guide to Fossicking in NSW) based on various legislation including the Mining Act & Regulations amongst various others.
Remember when using the NSW Fossicking Guidelines:
The various Acts & in particular the Mining Act 1992 spells out the law
The various Regulations & in particular the Mining Regulation 2010 + the Water Management Regulation 2011 are more specific to different areas, duties etc. & are legally enforceable
Codes of Practice, Standards, Guidelines etc. & in particular the NSW Fossicking Guidelines provide advice on how to meet regulatory requirements but are not legally enforceable although they can be used in courts as evidence that legal requirements have or have not been met.
Under NSW law to fossick on a TSR you require permission from the LHPA (Livestock Health & Pest Authority) as they manage this land.
Crown lands marked on a map mean little. If it is under lease then the leasee has exclusive rights to the land use & under NSW law you require their permission to fossick there. Likewise crown land can also be under the management of councils, common trusts, public trusts etc. & you need to find out if it is unmanaged/unleased or open to use beforehand or you can actually be trespassing. On managed crown land you need permission. Some crown land managers freely allow fossicking, some restrict what you can do & some don't allow it at all!
If there are crown lands or TSR's open to fossicking but have signs or rules saying "no highbanking" I would follow them. You may not get prosecuted but permission to fossick there at all may be removed by the land managers TO ALL OF US.
Not saying the Nundle situation is right or wrong but be careful with crown land & TSR's - you may unknowingly be breaking the law.

 

[thesmithy]

Mbasko,
Sorry I meant to say
A guide to fossicking in NSW.
Water management regulation 2011
and common sense was all that was needed.

Crown land in relation to fossicking was what I was talking about as that is what the conversation was about.
public land is always displayed in green usually crown, forest, public, parks,TSR etc.
it is up to the individual to do his own research as to where it starts and finishes.
By asking questions from land owner, local knowledge, gov depts (good luck).

In relation to Nundles TSR There is a public sign at the entrance....on that sign it says fossicking area. No camping. Keep gate closed at all times.
and that is all it says.
No writing saying........ please contact blah blah to get permission.Or no HB's allowed.

Tamworth council have stated to me in a phone conversation council follows fossicking guidlines set down by the state government in relation to the Peel river in nundle.
Also the town relies on tourism to exist especially fossicking and gem hunting.

with your last post you have put a mountain of rules and regs in front of members that will possibly have second thoughts about attending the Gathering.
Looking forward to a reply
cheers.

 

[shivan]

So the areas with the signs in Nundle are on crown land held/managed by a TSR. The so i am guessing the TSR has put the sign up for fossicking areas to allow prospsectors access without having to ask all the time, or maybe they had to allow prospectors access to get the TSR?
So could it be possible that the TSR holder or LHPA have put the no pump signs up as condition of entry? That would have nothing to do with the council so they would have no knowledge?

 

[Guest]

Mate I haven't put up a mountain of rules & regs but tried to show how the three tiers of NSW legislation work i.e. Acts - law, Regulations - law & Guidelines - just that guidelines.
Its all well & good to know your rights but we have responsibilities also so if my post makes people think about what they are going to do beforehand good. Not intended to dissuade anyone from the Gathering but if people go up there having done some research on where you can & can't fossick that can only be a good thing. Seems to be a lot of gung-ho posts on here lately that are openly without a lot of regard to any rules.
IMO it is up to the individual to decide what they do but openly flaunting laws/rules is no good for any of us.
If the Nundle TSR is signposted as a fossicking area there's your permission for that TSR. Doesn't mean all TSR's are open to fossicking.
I don't know what you mean by crown land in relation to fossicking? In relation to fossicking, or any activity, if it is under lease or management you need permission to be on there. Its not always just a matter of finding where it starts & finishes.
If the land managers wish to restrict or stop any activity on the land they are within their respective right to do so. This is what I wanted to highlight - even if there are no signs restricting highbanking at the Nundle TSR or other signs may be illegally posted- there are areas where there are legitimate restrictions in place or where crown land managers/leasees do not allow access &/or fossicking.

 

[Guest]

So the areas with the signs in Nundle are on crown land held/managed by a TSR. The so i am guessing the TSR has put the sign up for fossicking areas to allow prospsectors access without having to ask all the time, or maybe they had to allow prospectors access to get the TSR?

That would be right.

So could it be possible that the TSR holder or LHPA have put the no pump signs up as condition of entry? That would have nothing to do with the council so they would have no knowledge?

Correct again & within their right to do so if in fact they have placed the signage

Edit: I guess the point I was trying to get across was that while highbanking is legal in NSW certain land managers or leasees may place restrictions on certain activities including highbanking but could be any activity like motorbike riding, firewood collection, star gazing whatever or just not allow access at all.

 

[thesmithy]

The no pump sign is not at the TSR it is located at the swamp creek reserve.
please just go there as I have many times now and have a look for your.
I have never had an issue.
where have I said lease or management in relation to nundle just green crown land on the GPS map indicating that is or was crown land a starting point for your search.
it is up to you to do theground work from there.

I have been fossicking prospecting for 26 years and never an issue as I conduct searches and speak to land owner or who ever I need to speak to.

It is a hobby for most people please stop trying to make it into a chore.

 

[shivan]

Remember we are talking about the crown land here (or thats the impression i was under), and a lot of people who do this as a hobby have no idea how to check the status of crown land or how to contact the relavent people even if they can. So people come to the forums and ask questions hoping someone who has delt with the issue can clear things up, or point them in the right direction.

So the issue on crown land at nundel has been brought up, and using a highbanker. We know under normal circumstances, yes we can use a highbanker. But now there are reports of signs saying no pumps allowed and wile i was up that way i got an info pack from a tourist information center at Mookerawa Waters Park information center. It looked like this:

Now this points to two fossicking areas (not just swamp creek), i have no idea if these areas are TSR as i have not checked and when i was away had no ability to.
Just because other people do something does not make it legal (i am not saying the signs are right or wrong as i have no idea). If people do the wrong thing at places that have restricions in place but that we still have access to, it makes it more likely that those places will get closed out or shut off.

Not trying to start arguements or debates on the laws/rules i just dont think everything is black and white, and Nundle seems to be one of the places giving a lot of people headaches.

 

[thesmithy]

On those signs there is no reference to the author of the sign.
would seem a might strange I would think.
There is only 2 signs both located at swamp creek.

no sign at the old chimney fossicking area.

who would you be making references to someone working outside the guide lines of fossicking in NSW.

Have been doing a considerable amount of research today and it seems the same forum member has started this debate on just about every gold forum in Australia. The same agenda every time....TSR
Crown land.......land under management leases Etc.
For your Information the TSR is in between both these designated fossicking areas.

 

[shivan]

On those signs there is no reference to the author of the sign.
would seem a might strange I would think.
There is only 2 signs both located at swamp creek.
no sign at the old chimney fossicking area.

That is why i was saying there seems to be a lot of confusion about the place, i could quote quite a few different stories i have heard but that does not make any of them true. There is hell of a lot of conflicting information about the place and hard to tell what is official and what is rubbish.
Again when we were away we had not planned on coming this way so had not done any research, the above was all we could find and it was from a tourist info place so we figured they would have to have some idea(we thought at the time the no pumps was all in between those areas not just the two spots shown).

who would you be making references to someone working outside the guide lines of fossicking in NSW

I was refering to people trying to clear up the information regarding the signs and the laws. What i was saying was, if people just thought they were in the right because they were on crown land and ignored legal restrictions that would have a negative impact on getting any access at all. But like i also said i have no idea where the TSR is or the signs as i have never been there and was put off because of all the BS about the place.
That was again why i asked if we could maybe get this sorted. Ok not council signs but the signs do relate to the fossicking ares on the map, or was it just at the one spot?

Maybe we are getting closer to an answer?

 

[Twapster]

Angle grinder? Would this sort it out....

If someone has put illegal signs up id be very surprised. Anyway, by the look of the signage if it is true then its a small area to stay away from.