Divining rods for sapphire hunting

[user 4386]

Long range detectors/locators "work" off the same principle as divining rods.
Yes they are a scam

What principle is that - religous belief? Witchcraft? The "someone on the internet said so" principle?

https://treasureseekr.com/do-long-r...ork/?msclkid=f7091fc0bc7711ec9f095231cf57b549

 

[mbasko]

What principle is that - religous belief? Witchcraft? The "someone on the internet said so" principle?

https://treasureseekr.com/do-long-r...ork/?msclkid=f7091fc0bc7711ec9f095231cf57b549

Did you miss how I put work in "" or said below that they are a scam? Seems to have gone over your head GR?
The principle I refer to is Ideomotor Effect which has been scientifically proven as to the reason why some people believe in phenomenon such as dowsing & ouji boards working for them. It's something I've posted on this form a few times previously.
https://www.cbsd.org/site/handlers/...me=Ideometer Effect_Magic Beads Follow up.pdfFor others (like those whom sell long range locators/detectors) it is just a straight out money making scam.

 

[user 4386]

Did you miss how I put work in "" or said below that they are a scam? Seems to have gone over your head GR?
The principle I refer to is Ideomotor Effect which has been scientifically proven as to the reason why some people believe in phenomenon such as dowsing & ouji boards working for them. It's something I've posted on this form a few times previously.
https://www.cbsd.org/site/handlers/...me=Ideometer Effect_Magic Beads Follow up.pdfFor others (like those whom sell long range locators/detectors) it is just a straight out money making scam.

I did not go back that far but was replying to your last post - but did not miss you saying they were a scam or believe for a moment that you were referring to any actual operatiing principle (rather to a belief system). Can't read them all in the chain. It was a joke mbasko. "involuntary motor movements that are performed by a person because of prior expectations, suggestions or preconceptions" It is a good description of why people feel the motor movements. But it requires pre-existing "expectations, suggestions or preconceptions" - they must already be there for it to work. In an earlier post I gave the original religous basis for people having these and for that reason using divining rods hundreds of years ago. So it relates to having a belief system if one is to start twitching..

 

[Willy]

The guy with the long range detector may be picking up radio tags from the local wildlife that the forestry mob attached to them for scientific studies. Radio direction finding sounds exactly like that beeping from the detector.

 

[user 4386]

The guy with the long range detector may be picking up radio tags from the local wildlife that the forestry mob attached to them for scientific studies. Radio direction finding sounds exactly like that beeping from the detector.

Or perhaps he is pressing a button that goes "beep".

 

[Hawkear]

Science involves guesswork to make a theory. The theory should be specific enough to make predictions. Those predictions can then be tested by experiment. If the predictions and experiment do not agree then the theory is wrong. Simple.
The results of experiment ie the Gandi challenge has shown that divining does not work so when are we going to accept the result?

 

[user 4386]

Science involves guesswork to make a theory. The theory should be specific enough to make predictions. Those predictions can then be tested by experiment. If the predictions and experiment do not agree then the theory is wrong. Simple.
The results of experiment ie the Gandi challenge has shown that divining does not work so when are we going to accept the result?

James Randi (the guy who showed up Yuri Geller)? Yes, a million dollars should have been an incentive. Strictly you start with a hypothesis and test it (not only for things that support it. but for things that do not support it). It is not necessarily pure guess at the beginning, there can be a statistical basis that suggests it (eg all apples seem to fall on my head not float into space). If it is not supported you can either reject it outright or modify it and try again. Ultimately you get a theory that satisfies all tests (e.g. continental drift), or completely reject it (at least unless later evidence appears). If it is well established and can be quantified (eg so a value can be predicted as with Newton and gravity) it becomes a law.

Divining does not get to the statistical suggestion stage.....

 

[user 4386]

x

 

[Willy]

So I tried time travel and that worked well. Unfortunately I loaned my flux capacitor and never had it returned.Never lend your good tools to a non tradie,they always lose or break them. Anyone loan me a spare flux cap for a few hours. I get the lotto numbers for next week and you get a fifty percent share in the winnings.

 

[LONEWOLF]

Science involves guesswork to make a theory. The theory should be specific enough to make predictions. Those predictions can then be tested by experiment. If the predictions and experiment do not agree then the theory is wrong. Simple.
The results of experiment ie the Gandi challenge has shown that divining does not work so when are we going to accept the result?

Never......


LW...

 

[user 4386]

Never......


LW...

You are arguing about two different types of belief system, science is just one (evidence based and testable). Religion is another and is the basis for divining (as the name should suggest).

"Biblical accounts, such as the story of Moses and his brother Aaron, described the use of physical objects such as rods to manifest God’s will (see Exodus 7:9–12 and Numbers 17:8). Many Christians in Joseph Smith’s day similarly regarded divining rods as instruments for revelation. They believed these rods could help them find underground water or minerals".

"The Bible addresses practices such as dowsing in Hosea 4:12: “My people consult a wooden idol, and a diviner’s rod speaks to them. A spirit of prostitution leads them astray; they are unfaithful to their God.” The “diviner’s rod” has been variously interpreted as a magic wand, an Asherah pole, or some type of wooden staff used to predict the future or guide seekers into “wisdom.” The occult diviner’s rod condemned in Hosea sounds similar to a dowsing rod—in fact, another name for a dowsing rod is “divining rod,” because the purpose of dowsing is to divine the location of water or precious metal. According to Hosea, the Lord places divining rods, idolatry, and prostitution in the same category. But why would God be opposed to a harmless means of discovering a water source? The bottom line is that dowsing is a form of divination, a practice strictly forbidden by God (Deuteronomy 18:10; 2 Kings 17:17; Leviticus 19:26). Divination is an attempt to predict the future or uncover secret knowledge through a supernatural means other than the Lord. Sorcery, divination, witchcraft, and other occult practices have been a part of human history since Old Testament days. This type of activity was one of the reasons God was so severe with the Canaanite nations and commanded His people to have nothing to do with it (Deuteronomy 18:14; Micah 5:12)".

So I hope you bunch of Canaanites are not too religous.


Of course then it got incorporated into witchcraft, trendy at the time, and was called "water witching" and similar names.

https://aminoapps.com/c/thewitchescircle/page/blog/dowsing-rods/NqzM_6rSMuWKkVQQ2d3NEnWM7ExarJgRbD
Then there are things like conspiracy belief systems. Take your pick - difficult to convert people between different belief systems especially since none except science are data based (well, I suppose some conspiracy theories can have valid data basis - Watergate etc.).

But it is a hobby like any other (and I know some detectorologists who have had no more success than dowsers - but plenty who have).

 

[LONEWOLF]

Im not arguing about anything........ Just saying that some things just can't be explained...
I have seen ' Things' and believe some of it.. Science or not.. I really don't care, but lots of things just can't be explained in this world... Just like 'God'... Some are into it and some aren't.....
Just like the powers of Crystals... I really don't know about that one, but i have seen some strange things with those who are into it...

Example... When i was into Selling Crystals and Minerals i had a bag of Pietersite (not very common in Australia) in my pocket that those who were present didn't know about... But 2 people who walked in 'felt' something very powerful and freaked out and wondered who had ' something' as they were in the shop the day before and felt nothing different... So i thought id play a game with them, that they can try and guess who had it and then, what it was.... With-in 20sec these two found it in My pocket after standing in front of those who were there and when i Told them Yes i had it and now guess what is it.., one said its a very powerful Mineral but Not a Crystal.... She thought about it for a short time and said its something like Spectrolite or Pietersite maybe? ( both are Minerals from Russia).. Me, Hmmmmmm Strange... . She runs a Reflexology Business and knows her 'Rocks' i was told later...
Seen some just wave their hand over a table of Minerals and Crystals and 'Felt' the power of one Crystal and just had to buy it... Hmmm Strange again..

LW....

 

[Pat Hogen]

"Just saying that some things just can't be explained..." , like Americans eat hotdogs, for some reason.

 

[Hawkear]

Some things will never change. The Earth was flat once, and only a select few understood that it wasn't. Divining rods are no different.
I've learned a few things since my trip started and then finished suddenlt thanks to Mrs Badge having a fall.
1. Sceptics will always be sceptics.
2. Sceptics don't have the mental capacity to use diving rods, just incase they might work.
3. A very valuable and cheap lesson on how to identify sapphires from a Rubyvale local.
4. Dig deeper when you have found nothing first try.
5. Always carry a larhe piece of corundum to scratch what you have found if in doubt.
5. Don't feed the animals at the zoo incase they bite.

I had what I would class as a fruitful trip. The rods led me to some sapphires albeit very few and very small. And when I return I'll be spending some prime time with a certain local who gave me a few tips, including advice on using the rods and understanding the feel/vibrations.

In all I ended up with well over 100 sapphires of cutting size ( not cutting size for me but Lamberts in Thailand mainly) but the vast majority was from a bag from Armfest.

Cheers.
Badge.


Pic 1.From Armfest.
Pic 2. 4.35 ct green and blue.
Pic 3. A Pink.
Pic 4. My results. A mixed bag.

1. Agree true skeptics will never accept what they are asked to believe without evidence.
2. News that I have never been successful without divining rods and that I am mentally deficient in some way.
3. Again are you suggesting non diviners cannot identify sapphires?
4. No argument there, chances on average increase the deeper you dig for heavier minerals.
5. Good idea.
6. Excellent idea.

 

[Hawkear]

Science is never "right" in the sense that no one should question it. Even Newton was not right with one of the most successful theories (laws even) of all time. Science accepts what is the best working theory that can explain what we can experience and from which we can make predictions. Divining cannot explain anything or make demonstrably successful predictions as has been well demonstrated.

 

[LONEWOLF]

I didnt believe in the Easter bunny.... But he is real... Ask my Daughter...

LW...

 

[geowork]

Some things will never change. The Earth was flat once, and only a select few understood that it wasn't. Divining rods are no different.
I've learned a few things since my trip started and then finished suddenlt thanks to Mrs Badge having a fall.
1. Sceptics will always be sceptics.
2. Sceptics don't have the mental capacity to use diving rods, just incase they might work.
3. A very valuable and cheap lesson on how to identify sapphires from a Rubyvale local.
4. Dig deeper when you have found nothing first try.
5. Always carry a larhe piece of corundum to scratch what you have found if in doubt.
5. Don't feed the animals at the zoo incase they bite.

I had what I would class as a fruitful trip. The rods led me to some sapphires albeit very few and very small. And when I return I'll be spending some prime time with a certain local who gave me a few tips, including advice on using the rods and understanding the feel/vibrations.

In all I ended up with well over 100 sapphires of cutting size ( not cutting size for me but Lamberts in Thailand mainly) but the vast majority was from a bag from Armfest.

Cheers.
Badge.


Pic 1.From Armfest.
Pic 2. 4.35 ct green and blue.
Pic 3. A Pink.
Pic 4. My results. A mixed bag.

Nah Badge, it has nothing to do with skepticism, fear, embarrassment, whatever. Whether you use wires or not, many generations of fossickers have learnt (either fast or slooowly) that the way to good stone is to understand what you are after, the places to dig, and what the experienced are telling you. And most importantly try the locations, dig, dig and more dig, until you get on good stone. Otherwise, there are the fossicking parks.
For the more serious who want consistent stone, the way to a good producing claim, is to learn the "trade", ask and listen, then identify a claim and obtain it. Then put in the work! Either way, to be a successful fossicker or claim holder usually requires a few years to get there. I suppose there are the lucky ones in life.

 

[Mr Magoo]

About forty years ago my uncle, a doctor, explained dowsing to me and we tried an experiment. We'd each independently walk round the house and see if we could 'find water'. 'Coincidently' we both, unknowingly, had our 'coat hangers' cross at the same location. It surprised me but I put it down to nothing more than coincidence. I like science.
Fast forward ten years I was incidentally involved with laying a mains water (Scottish Water IIRC) supply in rural central Scotland (EU requirements) and connecting these isolated houses up to the new mains supply using the existing spring/well fed supply pipes. My job was there as a lowly banksman knowing the digging areas were selected by dowsing therefore I was expecting an entertaining day of digging random holes. I was blown away, every hole we dug (IIRC, certainly the majority by far) around these large Scottish homes was a hit for a pipe we were looking for. Even in the fields they were finding them without waiting for the excavator. It doesn't fit my way of thinking but it blew me away.

After I read this thread a couple of days ago, I contacted a plumbing friend of mine and asked if he used divining rods. 'Yes' why?" like I was asking a stupid question. And I know this bloke has more sophisticated equipment than the local council (they hire from him).

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/scott... several,by many, is scientifically unproven.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...t-using-divining-rods-to-find-leaks-and-pipes
Make of it what you will, but I saw what I saw (I haven't read those articles, posted links as a supplement).