ancient and buried leads

[Newbie]

We have discovered some old shafts on a property that we were invited to detect. No luck but Research shows the old timers were digging down to the old ancient Creek bed and getting good gold. My question in between the shaft have they left material or is it not worth trying . We think there might have been a a sluice on site in the mid to late 1800 how effective were these. I am guess my question in a whole is it likely that there is gold here for us or should we move on. The shafts they have sunk are about 2x 1 meter and spaces about 10 ft apart so I am thinking the ground between could hold good gold. I am not really keen to dig 25 meters to find out and just wonder if guys have done this with success.

 

[loamer]

What colour/makeup is the mullock?

 

[Newbie]

Red and yellow with a lot of water worn quartz. I am wondering if it is worth crushing the quartz but my Tdi with 6 inch on small gold didn't pick up much. Thinking about running a couple of the mullocks through my high banker to have a look.

 

[loamer]

The round quartz, if large, bigger than a fist and if lots of it will probably be barren. It sounds like they were simply after the small alluvial? The top layer of mullock would be a goer though - for sure they will have missed some small stuff, plus they used to false bottom, or miss the bottom, recover the bottom, etc etc. Any piles of very consistent small pea sized gravels away from the diggers holes? May indicate they have sieved the wash prior to carting it off for washing, if there was no water close by that is. These heaps can be very rewarding for small gold. No white mullock? May have washed away but if there is, this was the last layer out before the layer of rich wash - always a good sign. Sounds like an interesting site you are on.

For relics, look out for really old trees, tree stumps. Think shade where they had their smoko breaks. Then think morning shade/arvo shade- you may get lucky. Maybe even where the ground looks about tent sized levelling - camp sites/small huts. Some poor bugger had to stay out there all night, unless of course there is a small camp on site.

 

[Barra_Mad]

The round quartz, if large, bigger than a fist and if lots of it will probably be barren.

Hey mate i am not to certain i understand what you mean but that one would think that the bigger the rocks the better the gold. and if its quartz even better.

 

[loamer]

If this is an ancient creek/stream/river, the gold will usually be small alluvial. The rounded large sized quartz is a usually stacked around these sites in the 1,000s, in fact 10,000s and was hardly ever crushed. the old timers knew a thing or two. Also, by looking down the shaft, this layer of rounded quartz is usually some way off the bottom, indicating it is a far later layer of debris. Throughout the Victorian fields, this stuff is a dime a dozen and is usualy used to decorate garden beds, road side verges and the like. Possible there is gold - I however would follow the oldtimers lead and just not waste the time. If you are talking about quartz in current running water - then OK, its still close to original source and the matrix may contain small particles of gold. If you are talking about quartz smashed out of reefs, thats worth a look too. Conglomerate though is worth a look.

 

[Newbie]

Cheers loamer. The quartz ranges from 5c piece size to 10c for a majority of it upto 20c on some mullocks heaps. There is about 150 mine shafts on the the site. Loamer I am wondering did the old guys hit the bed rock then go sideways or hit rock and start again 10 feet away. From the surface looks to be minimal side ways tunneling but most holes are a little deep to peer down without some sort of restraining harness. Since the shafts are about 10feet or so apart I am wondering if I'd get some decent material digging between the holes. For example if i dug all the dirt between 2 holes would i get virgin ground or is it most likely to have been worked. The top layers a hard compact soil kind of like sand stone but a little softer. Sounds like I need to take my high banker and work the mullocks.

 

[TenOunce Tone]

Jezz Loamer. You know your stuff.

 

[MJB]

Hi Newbie,

Is this what your talking about??

I know a spot the same as this. The shafts are no more than 4 meters deep and are spaced out about every 4 meters apart. I have often wondered the same thing. Surely there is virgin ground between the shafts.

The problem is that 1. They are dangerous to go down and 2. that is a lot of digging to do before your sure there is virgin gold down there.

Personally, if I had the time and means I would give it a go just to satisfy my curiosity. But, the old timers must have given up the area for a reason. We can only hope it was for lack of water or a better rush started somewhere else.

Cheers

 

[Newbie]

That's exactly what I am wondering. I would estimate they only got about a 3rd of the ground covered I know they pulled out 800 ounces in what they did cover according to records I have found. Don't know how accurate that is but potentially at 1600 ounces on the site even I got get 1/100 of that I can buy this block from the guy that owns it.

 

[Goldtarget]

The old boys weren't afraid of hard work and had the time and inclination that we seem not to. I tend to tackle things from a practical side rather than research mostly because I enjoy digging sampling and washing alot more than reading (not the sharpest tool in the shed). My suggestion would be to determine what you can gain buy not just looking at what's in front of you but by putting in a shovel and pick and do thorough sampling. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. Whilst investigating a new area I try and keep it as simple as possible, when the gold is in the pan the next move becomes an easy decision. Shallow shafts always have me questioning how many duffer holes were dug too, mostly they had only a limited space and resources to get there and into the good pay dirt.

 

[loamer]

The thing with shafts, or in fact any diggings, is to get to know the legal conditions of the area they were allowed to dig. the shaft, or smaller diggings, are only an indication of the surface access to a wider underground level. take for example a deep reef mine - single (or safety double) access point, yet the mines spread out for miles both vertical and horizontal. A lot of the old mine shafts by looking down them are hard to see how far sideways they go, usually a yard or two, but have been subjected to erosion and collapse. The drives, as shown in MJBs drawing are what is happening - they hit the gold bearing wash then went as far sideways as they were allowed to (and also a bit further, hence the reports of underground 'claim jumping'.) Same for shallow diggings - they were only allowed a certain footage area to dig on their Miners rights/Licence.

The small quartz is interesting - that is the last thing out of the hole prior to hitting the wash layer by the sounds of it or maybe even the top of the wash. A small coil or a VLF should certainly give an indication of gold. Some of the gold could still be encased in what appears to be quartz or stone but is in fact super hard pipeclay - seen that a lot and the old timers missed it.

As for digging down, if they had a right to drive sideways from the shafts, which they would have, you may end up digging straight into a horizontal shaft - it happens. Dig, dig, dig, then the ground disappears beneath your feet and you may be many yards/metres from a shaft. Quite hair raising. I would most certainly concentrate on the mullock and the outside skirt of the mullock where the heavier stuff (hopefully gold) would have rolled/eroded to. Might also pay just to have a quick check of water runs off the mullock - these soils may have picked up gold. My mate Trev does these mullocks/quartz over a lot - takes buckets of the stuff and pans it for some nice little results.

The thing with mullock is - what is on top is the last thing out - always - no exception. If the ground is sloping, usually the gold bearing wash was taken out on the downhill side to prevent it falling back in and it was easier to cart away.

take a moment, have a brew, sit on a mullock heap, picture it 150 years ago, its hot, water is expensive, food is crap, you NEED to make a living, the missus is nagging you, the booze is second rate, the old boilers tempt you with their cunning ways to extract your hard-earned, the government is a pain. What is the easiest and quickest way to get this stuff out and washed - follow their lead (so to speak).

 

[Newbie]

Cheers mate. Looks like I have some work ahead of me. Mind you its not going to be to much of a stretch to picture that. Apart from being hot. Water is still expensive, I can't cook, you need to make a living, the wife/girlfriend nags. Booze ain't what it used to be. Everyone tries to swindle a dollar our of ya. And the government is a pain. The quickest way to get the stuff out should be easy. Lol

 

[G0lddigg@]

have to agree with Loamer, when things where dry I spent all of my time testing the drywasher by smashing just the top 2-3 inches off the top, this always prved far more rewarding than putting the lot through. Think when they started digging they made a small ramp around the tunnel to stop water falling in, towards the end they would often see sandy loam followed by white mud and quartz, often the quarts didnt have much gold but it did have mud pressed between it and made to a sturdy lip to the shaft. Ive found countless small pickers just sitting there and i know GPX 5000's ahve missed these.

I'd have to disagree with one point on the large quartz, otfen these where stacked away and not washed properly or washed in a puddler which picked up gold in the muddy cracks. these piles drywash really well.

by teh sounds of it newbie your material is quite small and like loamer said lots of pits usually means alluvial, do you see any red chipped rock around?
often these small pits the ones you can stand in are used to guage the fall of the bedrock, sometime below these you will see a benched area that they have surfaced due to a ledge drop off.

we can all speculate but we really need photos

 

[Mackka]

Hey Loamer I could read your information all day and still not know a tenth of what you know, thanks.
I was thinkin back 35 odd years ago and a mate of mine and myself crossed the border into Vic and we found a similar scenario of shafts.
We being young and foolish dug a pit between the shafts about 7' deep (no ladder) but we didn't find a speck.
Was there a rule of how close you could dig to another claim as I am wondering why the old blokes didn't dig them if they were finding gold in their own shafts?
Many Thanks and Regards
Mackka

 

[loamer]

Mackka - you make some good points. Why did they leave a run? Not to be a smart-arse, there were generally several reasons

1. The field was deemed uneconomical (To them) - not to us, perhaps.
2. Bloody water - nil or too much. The heat and floods drove them off the fields more often that you can imagine. The point here is that when a field was left like this, there can be quite often piles of wash - well, waiting to be washed, that have been left for winter and the diggers never returned for whatever reason.
3. New rushes - we are talking about the early stages of the gold rushes when it was all alluvial, alluvial, alluvial. Reefs were generally ignored to later - Clunes/Bendigo are examples even though gold was known to be present. The old boys literally just 'rushed' from strike to strike. usually got the easy pickings - potato patches and the like.

The size of a claim changed over time, but a claim in Victoria was defined as "A portion of ground marked off in accordance with the mining bye-laws of the district, and held by virtue of miners' rights'" There was also a frontage claim "A claim, the lateral boundaries of which are not fixed until the lead has been traced through it." One of the Eureka griveances was claim sizes.

The Gold Commissioners spent a lot of time over claim size disputes.

There is a couple of old tables floating about - for example, if the sinking was between 50 - 60 feet in depth, the length of lead claim for 8 men was 50 feet on the horizontal - this creating a drives and the like.

For the earlier claims, you were allowed 34 feet (for deep leads) for 12 blokes until they found the gutter or lead but were not protected for more than 40 feet width.

 

[loamer]

I need to make a quick amendment on the quartz notes I made in an earlier post as detailed above - to be fair I want you to get as much info as I can get for you Kermit the Frog Newbie. I have several 1800s' 'standard' cross section sets of data on leads as to the make-up of layers. I note on one of the references that there is a reference of quartz boulders sitting WITH the gravels above a layer of claystones (bedrock in our terms). It appears the claystones held the boulders in situ and the boulders, whilst holding nil to very little gold, were in fact infused with gold particles due to the proximity (and pressure i guess). So, please note, and as Golddig said - historical reporting shows where the boulders were located WITH the gravels, then gold may well be present with them. What is interesting,the common layer notes seem to indicate that gravels and quartz boulders sat above a layer of fine red gravel and ferruginous clay and/or then that above yellow coloured slates or pipeclay. So, it sounds like we may have an example here of mixed red gravels WITH quartz. As I said earlier- sounds like a good site.

 

[Ryan27]

Hi Newbie,

Is this what your talking about??
https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/img/member-images/1222/1407798702_wash_layer.png

I know a spot the same as this. The shafts are no more than 4 meters deep and are spaced out about every 4 meters apart. I have often wondered the same thing. Surely there is virgin ground between the shafts.

The problem is that 1. They are dangerous to go down and 2. that is a lot of digging to do before your sure there is virgin gold down there.

Personally, if I had the time and means I would give it a go just to satisfy my curiosity. But, the old timers must have given up the area for a reason. We can only hope it was for lack of water or a better rush started somewhere else.

Cheers

Thanks for drawing this MJB,
The ground between the shafts are commonly called pillars.
If you have ever seen a bulldozed diggings the pillars are easier to determine.
The pillars are generally virgin ground

 

[Newbie]

Cheers guys great response. It's a few weeks before I can get back out. But when I can ill take some photos and post it. I planning to go back with a couple of sieves and my mini recycling high banker and run some tests. I have a feeling most of the .01 and lower as the GMT and the tdi with 6 inch coil didn't pick up anything. Hopefully there is a lot of fine stuff.

There is a bit of a correction on my part was only able to locate a couple of boulders about the size of half a bowling ball. The rest was like 20c cent size and below. The Grey soil sounds interesting I have seen to much of it but my question does it turn to dry white or does it say Grey? ?

 

[Couna]

Be to my brother in laws place which is built
On a reef, he has 3 old shafts there
And we hit one of the holes with a backhoe
No back breaking work and we
Found this..... Got the heart pumping
For a bit