10,000 New Mining jobs for the immigrations 457 Work Visa Programme !!

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Swinging & digging said:
Is it worth mentioning that many are opposed to 457 visas.
The unemployed, those wanting the jobs that are been taken by 457 via holders etc.

Me personally are opposed to it!
In many suburbs around Australia youth unemployment is 16 - 20 %, why don,t these job offers get offered to our young & unemployed?
Why bring in foreign people and pay our own welfare?

Best of luck Greencheeks77, hope you get an offer / start in the Mining Industry. :D

Sadly it will take too long and cost too much to train those youngsters and most youngsters won't want to work where there is no night life or the security of their family and friends, and the mining companies are not going to want to put million dollar equipment in the hands of trainees,

And most of those who are doing the complaining are those who have no intension of working in the industry and they just don't want the jobs to go to foreign workers, So their views should be noted but not reflect the out come.
 
So lets see my opinion on the rural doctors in my town I will try and make it brief .... we have a lot of foreign doctors in this town BUT its is the older local doctor or doctors that are welcoming and established the methadone clinic here where I live whilst the younger doctors are against it, those same doctors are the ones that are so freely handing out proscription for like oxycodone and similar pills so they can take them home and shoot them up and swap them for other types of drugs. they are turning this town into a place where people do NOT feel safe, those people (drug addicts) have become Poly Abusers and probably why my street seems to have a large number of (junkies) living in MY street and mainly all at one house yet the lawmen just drive on past and do jack squat about, Or you you see them walking from the chemist with liquid methadone down the street where others are waiting for them to trade or to swap for other drugs its the same doctors that are signing forms and allowing those junkies or drug addicts to move to our small town as well, possibly those junkies are the same reason my best bird went missing from its cage last Saturday night and I cant find it and after having it for 8 years (my bird) and all of a sudden there a huge increase of traffic (junkies)in my street it just mysteriously disappeared also my daughters dog was stolen from within her own house as well, there is no or very little bulk billing in this town and only if the doctors allows it when you see them, but all the drug addicts DO get bulked billed.... then there's the fact that every time a script is written out by a doctor they get paid a certain amount of money for each one they sign so that's a huge issue in rural towns at the moment and it has made the town I live in very unsafe and now is classed in the top 5 places for worst domestic violence in Victoria so when it comes to 457s doctors in small towns I somehow don't think they a big issue unlike the other I just mentioned ... and why don't they clean this sh!t up well god only knows but it is really starting to suck............... NO regards Greencheeks :mad: :mad:
 
greencheeks77 said:
So lets see my opinion on the rural doctors in my town I will try and make it brief .... we have a lot of foreign doctors in this town BUT its is the older local doctor or doctors that are welcoming and established the methadone clinic here where I live whilst the younger doctors are against it, those same doctors are the ones that are so freely handing out proscription for like oxycodone and similar pills so they can take them home and shoot them up and they are turning this town into a place where people do NOT feel safe, those people (drug addicts) have become Poly Abusers and probably why my street seems to have a large number of (junkies) living in MY street and mainly all at one house yet the lawmen just drive on past and do jack squat about, Or you you see them walking from the chemist with liquid methadone down the street where others are waiting for them to trade or to swap for other drugs its the same doctors that are signing forms and allowing those junkies or drug addicts to move to our small town as well, possibly those junkies are the same reason my best bird went missing from its cage last Saturday night and I cant find it and after having it for 8 years (my bird) and all of a sudden there a huge increase of traffic (junkies)in my street it just mysteriously disappeared also my daughters dog was stolen from within her own house as well, there is no or very little bulk billing in this town and only if the doctors allows it when you see them, but all the drug addicts DO get bulked billed.... then there's the fact that every time a script is written out by a doctor they get paid a certain amount of money for each one they sign so that's a huge issue in rural towns at the moment and it has made the town I live in very unsafe and now is classed in the top 5 places for worst domestic violence in Victoria so when it comes to 457s doctors in small towns I somehow don't think they a big issue unlike the other I just mentioned ... and why don't they clean this sh!t up well god only knows but it is really starting to suck............... NO regards Greencheeks :mad: :mad:

I don't know how 457 visa's and 10,000 jobs relate to the problems that you have listed, But I think you have listed a world wide problem and until police and governments deal with such people head on and the dealers then what you have had to endure is not going to go away,,, I know exactly what you mean because I have seen the exact same things.

john.
 
I guess it doesn't but if your talking about doctors in rural towns on a 457 then people need to take a closer look at things in their own backyard rather than thinking those 457 doctors are a problem in rural towns where they are truly not and those 457 doctors have discovered health issues where the older doctors have not taken any notice like cancer and other things I guess their just more willing to be a doctor unlike older local ones that just become to lazy to care.... and I am venting john... Regards greencheeks
 
greencheeks77 said:
I guess it doesn't but if your talking about doctors in rural towns on a 457 then people need to take a closer look at things in their own backyard rather than thinking those 457 doctors are a problem in rural towns where they are truly not and those 457 doctors have discovered health issues where the older doctors have not taken any notice like cancer and other things I guess their just more willing to be a doctor unlike older local ones that just become to lazy to care.... and I am venting john... Regards greencheeks

Again I have to agree with you, and the deeper you look in to such things the worse they appear, There is no quick fix when such issues are left to stagnate, And the only way to change the Tired worn out system is to Challenge those who can do something about it or they will just keep Sailing the Ship without a Compass, As to where it will lead them is anyone's guess.
 
Yes, it is worldwide. But things can get worse guys - I was in an area larger than Australia where there were less doctors (or police for that matter) in total than we have in somewhere like Kilmore or Karatha. And I have been in countries where villagers would send a representative to ask if I had any medicines to spare (they had no doctors, they were not specific - iodine tablets, painkillers, anything please - as they had nothing). At least we can pick and choose a bit, and most doctors are reasonable (yes, some are awful). I had to get over Hep A in one country without a doctor or treatment and in another with raging headaches for days I was told to perhaps not use salt in my cooking. In some places they sell antibiotics in the market stalls,
 
I feel for those countries goldierocks but frankly I don't care, as we have our own problems right here. My town USED to very well policed and they kept it well in check even if there methods were not the standard, we still have the same number of coppers and sh!t is still getting well out of hand, who knows maybe its the SOFT approach they take now days that's letting it be the way it is ... What ever happened to a good old boot ride out the road or beaten with a batten whilst they have a telephone book against you, maybe its the internet that stoped that because phonebooks are not as thick as they once were :lol: :lol: but really things are just going backwards....
 
greencheeks77 said:
I feel for those countries goldierocks but frankly I don't care, as we have our own problems right here. My town USED to very well policed and they kept it well in check even if there methods were not the standard, we still have the same number of coppers and sh!t is still getting well out of hand, who knows maybe its the SOFT approach they take now days that's letting it be the way it is ... What ever happened to a good old boot ride out the road or beaten with a batten whilst they have a telephone book against you, maybe its the internet that stoped that because phonebooks are not as thick as they once were :lol: :lol: but really things are just going backwards....

You sure the level of corruption and cover up has just thickened like a callus
They'll get you different ways especially if you high light the problems
 
:lol: :lol: :lol: only time will tell aye :lol: :lol: :lol:
Mickkat12 said:
greencheeks77 said:
I feel for those countries goldierocks but frankly I don't care, as we have our own problems right here. My town USED to very well policed and they kept it well in check even if there methods were not the standard, we still have the same number of coppers and sh!t is still getting well out of hand, who knows maybe its the SOFT approach they take now days that's letting it be the way it is ... What ever happened to a good old boot ride out the road or beaten with a batten whilst they have a telephone book against you, maybe its the internet that stoped that because phonebooks are not as thick as they once were :lol: :lol: but really things are just going backwards....

You sure the level of corruption and cover up has just thickened like a callus
They'll get you different ways especially if you high light the problems
 
:lol: My wish is this
1481275489_untitled_22.jpg
:lol: not this :lol:
1481276373_untitled.jpg
;)
 
I'm a qualified electrician with an Australian A grade trade license and they would not even consider me if I applied. They are all corrupt multi billion dollar corporations taking care of the man. What recession? These corporations still seem to make multi billion dollar profits while the average Aussie battler struggles day to day. Kept where we are just as they want us to be. Some one is definitely getting a nice cut on these profits, who really governs this country??? Polies, international companies, money who knows? Enough of my nonsense, I say stick it to the man. :D :mad: :p
 
When I started this thread I thought it was about our jobs being taken from us Australians then as MG put up a detailed graph and the facets in more detail. I learned that it was more about coal mining than our jobs and then made me think about the impact that coal has on the world as we know it and then I pondered on the thought of how the mining of coal is going to impact and is impacting on the environment and how my children and your children and generations from now will see the world, will it be the same? will it be different from now? Those questions compelled me to watch a documentary that I had been skipping past and failed to take any notice of until today, After watching this documentary I have a totally different view about this ADANI coal mine operating within Australia and I think everybody should take some time out of their day to watch it as I have now learned that this new ADANI coal mine wont just impact on the economics but more so to what part it is going to contribute to the worlds climate change if it is to operate out of Australia for next 60 years. I feel if the Australian people realised that we are being blind sighted by the true political reason to why they are starting this coal mine I think most would have a different prospective and less willingness to except this coal mine to even start producing. So here is my contribution [video=480,360]https://youtu.be/2q7V460XZfE[/video] Before The Floods is possibly the best documentary put together to forecast how climate change will unfold and the real reasons behind it and perhaps make you realise politically like myself why a company from India is coming here to Australia to start mining coal, I believe the Australian people should not allow ADANI mining to even start within Australiahttps://1337x.to/sort-search/before%20the%20flood/time/desc/1/
 
Greencheeks, I purposely avoided mixing topics - it would probably be better to start a new topic with a new title, as things like 457 visas (which relate to many industries) and whether we should have coal mines at all are rather different topics (many would argue that this is the bigger one, as you are saying).

One thing I do is study things related to past climates. Most of these popular movies are exaggerated, but the science they are based on basically looks pretty good - there is a tendency to exaggerate how rapidly things are likely to occur (in my opinion) - and we won't be cooked in our beds (Hominids evolved when it was 7 degrees hotter although Homo sapiens was similar to now), but it will probably cause major changes that will not be pleasant, with loss of some low-lying land, possibly wars over land and water, major changes in what we farm and where we farm it. Nevertheless the science indicates that the predictiions mostly will occur, given sufficient time - sea level is rising faster than it was before the industrial age (it has risen hundreds of metres since the aborigines arrived during the last ice age, perhaps 200 m before the industrial age began - they could walk from Port Moresby to Hobart without boats). However for the last 100 years it has been increasing at nearly twice the rate of before, by 2100 it will probably rise 1.5 m on average, and temperatures have gone up about one degree in a hundred years, the glaciers are retreating etc.

The real problem is that Australia is basically a mining economy in terms of exports - coal alone is around $50 billion per year ($118 billion in projects in the pipeline), and iron ore is another giant - and iron smelting to a significant degree depends on coal. I think gold is third, and after that other minerals are pretty insignificant. However although we talk a lot about agriculture, coal on its own (not all mining, just coal) brings in twice as many dollars per year as agriculture. We don't have a lot else - manufacturing is insignificant and tourism and education are pretty minor by comparison with mining (they follow mining and agriculture, each about 10% of our exports). Mining is still bringing in the money - the talk of "old economy" and so on is still basically just talk by the pollies (good as it would be to not have this dependence) - the money is coming in, it is just that the mining companies are not making much of a profit at present (and taxes are mostly on profits, so the government ends up with a black hole) - but the total $ still come in because as much (actually more) is still being exported.

So this is the decision that people must make. Australia is about 1.5% of the world problem, so unless other countries (China with a ballooning population, America with a new president who wants to accelerate coal use and does not believe in climate change) - then as a single small country we cannot do a great deal. They say how we are a major polluter per capita - but that is per capita (per person), not in total - and the reason we are so high per capita is that places elsewhere all use nuclear power (ie if we generated the same proportion of electricity from nuclear power as they do, we would only have a similar per capita carbon dioxide emissions as them). I think French electricity is around 40% nuclear and Japan 70%. Yes we export more coal that the majority of countries, but Brazil, South Africa etc are huge exporters and if we decrease, they can take up the slack and mine what we stop mining, so as much coal will still be produced. If everything stopped overnight in Australia with iron ore and coal, there would be massive unemployment in Australia (because other industries are related to this production, not just mining) and those in jobs would all be earning far less than now - like Greece we would probably have to stop most pensions and social security etc.

So this is what governments are faced with, whatever their politics. Some ignore it completely, at best they try to reduce it to 1990s levels which will only slightly delay the issue (because they do not want to collapse their economies overnight and need time to change the mix of production and exports). Victoria has coal as dirty as any in the world. Others like Victoria do silly things like banning onshore gas exploration completely - gas being much less of a polluter than coal-generated power (but because the public does not understand the issues - which are varied and complex - they think this is great and it gets votes). Another effect is the cost of power - it is already upsetting people and will go much higher with changes to decrease emissions. People usually have great ideals, but tend to lose them rapidly when it really starts to hit the hip pocket nerve (hence the Libs backing away from a carbon tax like poison).

Not a value judgement on my part, just a statement of the complexity of dealing with the problem.....I don't know the answer (i.e. how to go about solving the problem). That is why I mentioned people pollution in a previous blog - the difference between consuming less and poluting less per person, or having less people consuming and poluting (which produces its own economic problems like an ageing population).
 
I really dont know what all hooha is about when we do the maths! These figures were for year 2014-2015 - and todays are probably a lot worse.

In 2014-2015 there were 795200 unemployed in Australia and only 171900 job vacancies.
In 2014-2015 there were a total of 104750 457 visas operating in Australia with 51130 granted for that year.

Take 171900 job vacancies away from 795,200 and I get a figure of 623,300 - that's how many people could never get a job no matter how good they are at looking for or working at a job! If I ran a company why would I want to employ some one who doesnt want work? I'd be employing those that are productive and have a positive attitude to work - leave the bludgers out of it - they cost employers.

Any of you are aware of what employees in the mining industry are going through? Things are getting pretty bad - most trades people have been retrenched up here and offered contracts that are significantly lower payed than there were previously paid. And mining processors/operators/labourers are now being employed by labour hire companies - at significantly lower rates with no job security. This equates to lower costs, bigger profits but NO more jobs.

Like Adani, these companies are amongst the one third of large companies that DONT pay tax in Australia and thus do nothing for our economy! They're much worse than the unemployed - getting low cost loans out of whats meant to keep our farmers afloat (less for them I guess) hahahahaha what a joke!

From the ATO
- Out of 1539 of Australia's largest corporate entities, 38 per cent did not pay any tax in 2014-15.
-64pc of 1,904 large companies paid at least some corporate tax in 2014-15
- Almost 60 per cent of large resources and energy firms paid no tax
- ATO said 15pc of firms had an accounting loss, 7pc a tax loss

Army for the bludgers - no way! We'll really have to depend upon our military to allow us to continue to be a free country, cant have them sleeping the day away in their trenches now can we!

If our government (doesn't matter labour - LNP) had any backbone they'd be taxing these companies instead of letting them take it all for next to nothing - then they'd not have to worry the poor old aged pensioner about whether they'll still be entitled to the meager pittance they're getting! PENSIONS ARENT WELFARE - just ask the polliticians about theirs! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
 
As someone who has worked in the mines i cant tell you how frustrating it is to see this, its one thing if a company simply cant source appropriately skilled Australians to fill a vacancy but this isn't the case, big business is importing labor because they're easier to use/abuse/control and dispose of when no longer needed.
 
"Take 171900 job vacancies away from 795,200 and I get a figure of 623,300 - that's how many people could never get a job no matter how good they are at looking for or working at a job! " - that was one of the points I was making - take away 104750 (457 visas) and it would also not solve the problem.

"If I ran a company why would I want to employ some one who doesnt want work"? - that is part of the problem (there will always be a hard core that don't want to work and we have all encountered them - but there are plenty of people who do want jobs and who aren't finding them). And as I also mentioned, part of the problem is that jobs can come up quickly (as with a new mine or a mineral boom) and many who can't get jobs still can't fill them as fast as needed because they don't have the skills and training, so that is obtained overseas (and in our downturns Australians work in their countries).

"Like Adani, these companies are amongst the one third of large companies that DONT pay tax in Australia and thus do nothing for our economy!" What is your source of this information - I thought Carmichael was all Adani had, and I didn't know they were earning income in Australia - I thought they were just spending their money developing a large mine and building a rail line and a port?

Companies do not pay tax in Australia unless they make a profit - why would any company invest here if they were to make a loss and have to pay tax as well for making a loss? The majority of those companies you are talking about are not paying any significant tax because they are not making any significant profit - iron ore crashed to a fraction of its price during the boom, and most types of coal the same. Mining companies are one of the few exceptions to this, because they have to pay royalities to the State governments whether or not they make a profit (it is commonly per ton mined). So again it is a dishonest play on words for the Federal government to say they are not paying tax at all when they are paying State royalties. It has been argued that some of those royalties should be higher but two things come in - (i) we compete against other countries that don't charge royalties and who can take up the increased demands if our mines become unprofitable and close down, and (ii) because they are per ton based and not profit-based, what happens to companies merely scraping by if you increase their costs without their profits increasing? And we are competing against some countries that do not charge income tax on profits OR any royalties (eg in Africa) - because even a company that pays neither is supplying jobs, salaries and income from exports that are required for any country to buy imports. So it is not strictly accurate to say they are doing nothing for the country - in Australia it is 40% of our export income and provides income to very large numbers of people. Again, a lot is media hype. If you look at the biggest offenders, they are often companies like Google and companies that supply things like on-line services and sales in Australia, but collect your payment in another country with a low tax rate (where they pay there tax rather than here) - that is not very applicable to mining. However there are other ways of shifting profits and losses around the world legally, some mining companies and quite a few other types of companies (but probably a minority) do it, and governments have been slack at policing that - they are the ones that have to make the laws. If the government said to you "you have paid all the tax that you are legally required to, how about paying some that he law does not require you to pay?" would you do it? Governments are great at making villains out of others to cover their own incompetence. And of course low tax rates are why the pollies like Turnbull have their money in places like the Cayman Islands and Virgin Islands, and changes would impact on them personally. But it is still not the biggest issue, although it certainly needs addressing.

If companies are making a lot less money, or hanging in there making a loss and hoping for a reversal in fortunes, they will cut pay and employ through labour hire companies so they can retrench at short notice. In many cases the choice is that or closing their mines. And keep in mind that investors don't put their money into even a mine that makes a profit, if the profit is poor compared to something else they could invest in other than mining (eg Indonesian palm oil). My experience was that during the mining boom when they were making fat profits (and paying a lot of tax) they were bloody good employers and everyone wanted to work on the mines to get a fat pay packet.

So what are we asking? We are asking for companies from overseas to invest their billions here to earn less than they can make on their money by spending it in other countries, and asking them to pay us more than the value of what we produce warrants, because we consider we deserve to earn what we made in the past during booms, and because we think we deserve to earn more than people in other nations? If we don't want to do it there are plenty of poorer countries that will - we have done well not because we have the resources (we are not unique in that) but because we are better at mining them efficiently and economically. But the pollies and media don't really say it that way, because the public don't like to hear it. I forget which politician said that Americans need to learn that they are not actually more important than the people elsewhere in the world - and sadly I think that applies to all wealthy nations . We do have to compete - and it is easy to believe that there are simply angels and villains, and that everything one says is a fabrication and everything the other says is the truth.
 
I wish it were otherwise, but it does little good pretending otherwise. The graphs tell the story (just lately coking coal has picked up a bit) - it has been all downhill for 5 years now:

1481516664_coal_price.jpg


1481516693_iron_ore_price.jpg


Why - partly declining economic conditions (good conditions start a boom up), but also because we have to compete with other countries that were developing their mines at the same time after the boom began. The government propagates the myth that we have something better than all other countries because then we are happy for them to increase taxes etc. (and let's face it, who doesn't like to think they or their country is exceptional in some way)? The truth is that we have as good as any of the other "lucky" countries (but not better), but the price you can sell for depends on how much of a mineral the world is producing. If other countries can sell cheaper than us because we become high-cost producers, we have to accept the lower price to sell our minerals, our profits drop, people get laid off....

And of course governments try to tax mining companies more than other companies when they are doing well. Minerals belong to the States, not to the Commonwealth governments. But when things were good, the Federal Labor government under Rudd attempted to introduce a Commonwealth "excess profits tax" on mining that was not on excess profits at all but just above a moderate amount at that time (banks were making far higher profits but had no such "excess profits" tax). ie, the Commonwealth could not tax minerals so they taxed "excess profits" but confined the tax to the mineral industry - very innovative our pollies. It didn't work for a number of reasons, one being that the States got upset and threatened to increase royalties greatly (some did) - the problem being that the Commonwealth was going to make an allowance for royalties paid to the states (because the rates are different in each state) - so it reduced the slice that the Commonwealth could get after State royalties.

Which sounds good, "tax the bastards" you say, but minerals are a roller coaster industry. Imagine if the price car manufacturers or beef producers could get at times was less than 25% of what they could get at other times, just over 5 years? And governments maximise tax in good times but don't give them any tax breaks in bad times, unlike some other industries. And this impacts on training - companies do provide various schemes and bursaries, but often by the time they have trained up a good large work force they have a downturn and are laying off again (so 457s and labour hire firms are often better for them in terms of flexibility - instant supply of trained people - but expensive and rarely the first preference). This boom differed slightly in that it lasted the longest of any in my lifetime (but other things affected mining companies during the boom - Australia sold its gold stocks because the government wanted the money and the price of gold companies crashed, then the 2008 economic crisis occurred, and although mineral prices remained good there was no longer money to invest in new mines).

Likewise when profits dive, so does any employment they can afford to cut - look at my area of mineral exploration (less dollars spent = less people employed):

1481517331_mineral_exploration.jpg


Part of the problem with the roller coaster is that issuing of permits of new mines - or even permits to explore for new mines - is incredibly slow in Australia, commonly extending over years. It can take 10 years to discover a new mine, a company spending millions to tens of millions every year with no income, and then 8 years to bring it into production, with no income (varies with the type of mine - more like 2 not 8 for gold because they tend to be smaller mines). Environmental costs as well as time can be an issue, with reports costing many tens of millions of dollars each in some cases (I think $30 million for Olympic Dam extension, that was delayed for ages then abandoned). It was a similar sory with NW SHelf gas that was also canned after years of negotiating. So timing is a real problem - you don't want to be sitting on your hands during a boom trying to get permitting and then finally get production going in a slump when prices are low (all your expenditure when you are earning nothing, all your income when you can earn the least - try buying a new house and then not having a job for years). The government, Greenies and public in general says "let them wait another year while we negotiate, it doesn't matter" - but it does. Olympic Dam finally got the OK as the downturn began and they shelved its expansion because they could not get a return on their investment with dropping copper prices. I don't know how Adani is affected (since there is a bit of an upturn right noew in good coking coal).

Sometimes one needs to look at both sides of the story - yes, companies will get the most they can out of you (but in booms when trained people are short, we do the same to them). And the government will get us both, coming and going, and will spin any story to get what they want (which is probably what they think is right, but isn;t always and the public doesm't know the real issues)......They get their pay no matter what happens :mad:
 
Quoted from: http://www.qt.com.au/news/companies-taxes-revealed/2877018/

"FOUR major Gladstone companies did not pay any income tax in the 2013-2014 financial year; and others that did, paid a smaller percentage of their income than the average worker.
Queensland Alumina Limited, Boyne Smelters, BG-Group operating as QGC, and APLNG are all on the Australian Taxation Office's list, released yesterday, of almost 600 companies that didn't pay tax that year."

But the ATO they didn't miss out getting mine or your tax that year!

In my opinion, any person or company that moves their finances, workforce or profits overseas to reap the tax rewards should be given a one way ticket never to return and that includes Malcolm Turnbull or any other politician/person!
 
As we've mentioned Adani here I guess this isnt off topic.

I see Adani hit the ABC news tonight with major concerns about their company structures - namely TAX HAVENS! There is concern over the Abbot Point Coal facility as Adani are trying to transfer this asset to a Hayman Island company. And further concerns that the $1 billion dollar loan of our tax payers money will also be held by a Hayman Island company - even with assurances from Adani, there will be no recourse as it will be the companies they have set up that wont have the money to pay us back!
 

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