Is Highbanking Legal In QLD?
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He was taking a chance....aint legal?
Mind you i have highbanked in qld? I was unawear it was illegal from the vague discription of the fossicking act...thought if i wasnt disturbing anyone with noise i was ok..and i dug the material by hand....
Mind you i have highbanked in qld? I was unawear it was illegal from the vague discription of the fossicking act...thought if i wasnt disturbing anyone with noise i was ok..and i dug the material by hand....
Would you guys in Qld be able to use something like this to pump water to your bankers ?
[video=480,360]http://youtu.be/R1pjntxmCrk[/video]
Just need to make the pump with PVC pipes a flexible hose and a bucket with the bottom cut out to submerse in the water.
[video=480,360]http://youtu.be/R1pjntxmCrk[/video]
Just need to make the pump with PVC pipes a flexible hose and a bucket with the bottom cut out to submerse in the water.
Ill again mention the Ram Pump 
I have built a ram pump and tried it....
For starters not enough water for hb or sluice...even if you make it with 3inch pipe...great for outdoor bush crops!
The key is to minimize gear? walking through Qld scrub is hard and dense....3km with 20m of ag pipe superman material.
Then you need to set it up...which is harder than you think?
For starters not enough water for hb or sluice...even if you make it with 3inch pipe...great for outdoor bush crops!
The key is to minimize gear? walking through Qld scrub is hard and dense....3km with 20m of ag pipe superman material.
Then you need to set it up...which is harder than you think?
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Rookie question. Whats the difference between a high banker and a sluice?
My father in law has built what he is calling a sluice but since joining the forum im starting to think he has built a highbanker, and has done an exceptional job
Also is it actually illegal to use highbankers, or you just cant use mechanical means to pump water to use the highbanker deeming them useless?
Thanks
My father in law has built what he is calling a sluice but since joining the forum im starting to think he has built a highbanker, and has done an exceptional job
Also is it actually illegal to use highbankers, or you just cant use mechanical means to pump water to use the highbanker deeming them useless?
Thanks
A sluice sits in the creek and water flows through it. A high banker sits on the bank, (high on the bank even) and is fed water via a pump.
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Thanks Ramjet, that has cleared it up, looks like he has built a high banker. So for the Qlders or anyone that might know, is the high banker illegal or is it because you need a pump to work it?
Well we all know that Queensland is a funny place as far as Prospecting Rules go. But the old question arises. Is it illegal to pump water up to a highbanker or even a cradle? You are not using the water to "dig up" your gold, you're only washing what you have already collected by manual means (no machinery etc). In my book, it's no different than panning in a creek. You are using the water to wash your dirt. It is no different with a highbanker.
With a sluice, the argument is that you are upsetting the nature of things buy causing turbidity in the river/creek. Of course that's arguable anyway. A good flow of water after some rains will do the same thing.
But up here in the sunshine state we have rules influenced by left wingers and greenies. Actually I'm amazed at just what you can do in Victoria. The greenies have had a huge influence in that state. They've banned 4wd's from forests, stopped burn-offs so the bushfires are worse than ever, they have effectively locked up the high country - certainly to the cattlemen who keep the growth down and lessened the risk of huge fires.
But that's life fellas. I still believe that pumping water for washing your dirt has to be legal. If I was washing away the topsoil etc from the side of a mountain, then that's another story. Anyway, just my thoughts.
With a sluice, the argument is that you are upsetting the nature of things buy causing turbidity in the river/creek. Of course that's arguable anyway. A good flow of water after some rains will do the same thing.
But up here in the sunshine state we have rules influenced by left wingers and greenies. Actually I'm amazed at just what you can do in Victoria. The greenies have had a huge influence in that state. They've banned 4wd's from forests, stopped burn-offs so the bushfires are worse than ever, they have effectively locked up the high country - certainly to the cattlemen who keep the growth down and lessened the risk of huge fires.
But that's life fellas. I still believe that pumping water for washing your dirt has to be legal. If I was washing away the topsoil etc from the side of a mountain, then that's another story. Anyway, just my thoughts.
There has been lots of discussion on this topic.
Check this topic. https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=5460
The Prospecting Rules & Regulations section.
https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=67
Check this topic. https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=5460
The Prospecting Rules & Regulations section.
https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=67
Just cant use mechanical means to lift water...highbanker is fine if you feed it water by hand....
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Im gunna get difficult/technical now so i hope you can answer this
He has built the high banker on a tool/cargo box that is on wheels so is portable and also holds water that can be used to wash the dirt with, so is it that you cant use mechanical means to pump from the creek or can we move the water by "hand" to the cargo box then use a pump to recycle the water from the cargo box that sits under the high banker to wash the dirt??
He has built the high banker on a tool/cargo box that is on wheels so is portable and also holds water that can be used to wash the dirt with, so is it that you cant use mechanical means to pump from the creek or can we move the water by "hand" to the cargo box then use a pump to recycle the water from the cargo box that sits under the high banker to wash the dirt??
Yeah Ramjet, I understand what you are saying.
I'm sitting here at the moment with a copy of the Queensland Fossicking Rules and Responsibilities. Under the heading of "Permitted Tools and Extent of Diggings it says:
Hand tools such as picks, shovels, hammers, sieves, shakers, electronic detectors and other similar tools can be used. No Machinery is Permitted.
You can collect from the surface or by digging, but you are not permitted to dig below 2m of the natural ground surface of land or below 0.5m in streams. Overhangs and tunnels are not allowed. On road reserves, no digging is permitted but collection from existing exposures is allowed.
Okay, my points are -
A water pump used to bring water to your wash is not a machine used for fossicking, digging or anything other than washing what you have already collected by hand and with the hand tools mentioned.
A shaker is mentioned as allowable. That must include a cradle because that is effectively what it does with the use of water. Now I can go to the creek and get a 44 of water and use a bucket or whatever to pour the water through my cradle. Now to fill the 44, I would use a pump of some sort and would have to use some form of transport to get it to my cradle if it is not near the creek.
Now, if you think about it, a highbanker is just a fancy cradle that handles a bit more wash dirt than the good old cradle. You could also include the long tom, and I'm sure there are numerous other items from long ago that are quite similar.
What the rules are saying is that you cannot use machinery to fossick or prospect or dig &etc. Pumping water for washing can in no way be classified as using machinery for fossicking. As I have said, it is no different from panning in a creek, it is simply washing your dirt.
However, we all know that legislation or rules are generally written in such a way that lawyers will have a field day in court arguing that black is white, or whatever. To tell the truth, I'd love the opportunity to take this issue on in court. But then I can be an argumentative old bugger at the best of times.
Just putting my views and slant on the interpretation of the rules Ramjet. I don't argue with anyone because I've learned long ago that you never win that way. You have to put up rational debate, and leave all the emotion out of it. I'm pushing 70, so I've got a lot of hash marks, but I've also had a lot of experience interpreting legalese. Just hope my rantings provides fodder for some good well thought out debate. Cheers ya'all.
I'm sitting here at the moment with a copy of the Queensland Fossicking Rules and Responsibilities. Under the heading of "Permitted Tools and Extent of Diggings it says:
Hand tools such as picks, shovels, hammers, sieves, shakers, electronic detectors and other similar tools can be used. No Machinery is Permitted.
You can collect from the surface or by digging, but you are not permitted to dig below 2m of the natural ground surface of land or below 0.5m in streams. Overhangs and tunnels are not allowed. On road reserves, no digging is permitted but collection from existing exposures is allowed.
Okay, my points are -
A water pump used to bring water to your wash is not a machine used for fossicking, digging or anything other than washing what you have already collected by hand and with the hand tools mentioned.
A shaker is mentioned as allowable. That must include a cradle because that is effectively what it does with the use of water. Now I can go to the creek and get a 44 of water and use a bucket or whatever to pour the water through my cradle. Now to fill the 44, I would use a pump of some sort and would have to use some form of transport to get it to my cradle if it is not near the creek.
Now, if you think about it, a highbanker is just a fancy cradle that handles a bit more wash dirt than the good old cradle. You could also include the long tom, and I'm sure there are numerous other items from long ago that are quite similar.
What the rules are saying is that you cannot use machinery to fossick or prospect or dig &etc. Pumping water for washing can in no way be classified as using machinery for fossicking. As I have said, it is no different from panning in a creek, it is simply washing your dirt.
However, we all know that legislation or rules are generally written in such a way that lawyers will have a field day in court arguing that black is white, or whatever. To tell the truth, I'd love the opportunity to take this issue on in court. But then I can be an argumentative old bugger at the best of times.
Just putting my views and slant on the interpretation of the rules Ramjet. I don't argue with anyone because I've learned long ago that you never win that way. You have to put up rational debate, and leave all the emotion out of it. I'm pushing 70, so I've got a lot of hash marks, but I've also had a lot of experience interpreting legalese. Just hope my rantings provides fodder for some good well thought out debate. Cheers ya'all.
Well i got a highbanker and the number of the inspector....or you can play cat n mouse for a while just to get him excited 1st.
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Hi guys, I posted this somewhere else but when I got my license I asked Rossco what exactly can we do in QLD. Here is his response. He's from the Brisbane District Office.
Len
Simple answer to your question, only hand tools as listed below from the Fossicking Act 1994.
hand tool means
(a) a pick, shovel, hammer, sieve, shaker, or electronic
detector; or
(b) a tool declared by regulation to be a hand tool.
This would mean that equipment or mechanical devices powered/operated by electrical, solar, battery, internal combustion, pneumatic, winched etc are a prohibited machine.
This also includes pumps for high bankers and sluice boxes.
The only exception to this is in the hand tool definition, a metal detector(electronic detector) is permitted.
Sluices which use the natural flow or are feed with water by hand means (no mechanical pump etc) are acceptable.
Hand held crevice sucker is acceptable so long as there is no mechanical device powering it, eg electrical, solar, battery, internal combustion, pneumatic etc
http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/F/FossickingA94.pdf Fossicking Act 1994
http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/F/FossickingR09.pdf Fossicking Regulations 2009
38 Use of machinery etc. prohibited
A person fossicking under a licence must not use machinery
or equipment (other than a hand tool) to fossick.
Maximum penalty400 penalty units.
39 Limits on digging
(1) A person fossicking under a licence must not dig below
ground level
(a) to a depth, measured from the highest point at the top of
the land dug, of more than
(i) 0.5m in a watercourse; or
(ii) 2m on other land; or
(iii) a depth fixed under subsection (2); or
(b) if the digging involves tunnelling under land or creating
an overhang; or
(c) in a road reserve.
Maximum penalty20 penalty units.
16 Structures, dams and machinery
A person must not erect an enclosed structure, dam or
pipeline, or install fixed machinery, on designated fossicking
land or a fossicking area.
Maximum penalty50 penalty units.
19 Other prohibited conduct
A person on designated fossicking land or a fossicking area
must not
(a) use a weapon, trap or explosive on the land, unless the
person has a reasonable excuse; or
(b) operate a generator, engine-driven equipment, radio or
other electrical appliance in a way that may
unreasonably annoy someone else on the land; or
(c) damage or destroy a wall, fence, building, barrier, sign,
receptacle or other structure; or
(d) light a fire
(i) in a place other than a cleared space with a radius
of at least 2m or a properly built fireplace; or
(ii) if, under a sign erected on the land by the chief
executive, a person must not light a fire on the
land; or
(e) allow water, other than water the person brought onto
the land, to run to waste; or
(f) if, under a sign erected on the land by the chief
executive, a person must not bring a cat or dog onto the
landbring a cat or dog onto the land.
Maximum penalty20 penalty units.
Regards
Rossco
Ross Howkins
Field and Land Access Officer
Brisbane District Office
Mining and Petroleum Operations
Department of Natural Resources and Mines
Queensland Minerals and Energy Centre
Level 16, 61 Mary Street,
Brisbane Queensland 4000
PO Box 15216, City East Queensland 4002
Phone: 07 3199 7750 Fax: 07 3405 5347 Mob: 04 0960 8312
Email: [email protected] or [email protected]
Website: www.mines.industry.qld.gov.au
Customer Service Centre 13 25 23
Len
Simple answer to your question, only hand tools as listed below from the Fossicking Act 1994.
hand tool means
(a) a pick, shovel, hammer, sieve, shaker, or electronic
detector; or
(b) a tool declared by regulation to be a hand tool.
This would mean that equipment or mechanical devices powered/operated by electrical, solar, battery, internal combustion, pneumatic, winched etc are a prohibited machine.
This also includes pumps for high bankers and sluice boxes.
The only exception to this is in the hand tool definition, a metal detector(electronic detector) is permitted.
Sluices which use the natural flow or are feed with water by hand means (no mechanical pump etc) are acceptable.
Hand held crevice sucker is acceptable so long as there is no mechanical device powering it, eg electrical, solar, battery, internal combustion, pneumatic etc
http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/F/FossickingA94.pdf Fossicking Act 1994
http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/F/FossickingR09.pdf Fossicking Regulations 2009
38 Use of machinery etc. prohibited
A person fossicking under a licence must not use machinery
or equipment (other than a hand tool) to fossick.
Maximum penalty400 penalty units.
39 Limits on digging
(1) A person fossicking under a licence must not dig below
ground level
(a) to a depth, measured from the highest point at the top of
the land dug, of more than
(i) 0.5m in a watercourse; or
(ii) 2m on other land; or
(iii) a depth fixed under subsection (2); or
(b) if the digging involves tunnelling under land or creating
an overhang; or
(c) in a road reserve.
Maximum penalty20 penalty units.
16 Structures, dams and machinery
A person must not erect an enclosed structure, dam or
pipeline, or install fixed machinery, on designated fossicking
land or a fossicking area.
Maximum penalty50 penalty units.
19 Other prohibited conduct
A person on designated fossicking land or a fossicking area
must not
(a) use a weapon, trap or explosive on the land, unless the
person has a reasonable excuse; or
(b) operate a generator, engine-driven equipment, radio or
other electrical appliance in a way that may
unreasonably annoy someone else on the land; or
(c) damage or destroy a wall, fence, building, barrier, sign,
receptacle or other structure; or
(d) light a fire
(i) in a place other than a cleared space with a radius
of at least 2m or a properly built fireplace; or
(ii) if, under a sign erected on the land by the chief
executive, a person must not light a fire on the
land; or
(e) allow water, other than water the person brought onto
the land, to run to waste; or
(f) if, under a sign erected on the land by the chief
executive, a person must not bring a cat or dog onto the
landbring a cat or dog onto the land.
Maximum penalty20 penalty units.
Regards
Rossco
Ross Howkins
Field and Land Access Officer
Brisbane District Office
Mining and Petroleum Operations
Department of Natural Resources and Mines
Queensland Minerals and Energy Centre
Level 16, 61 Mary Street,
Brisbane Queensland 4000
PO Box 15216, City East Queensland 4002
Phone: 07 3199 7750 Fax: 07 3405 5347 Mob: 04 0960 8312
Email: [email protected] or [email protected]
Website: www.mines.industry.qld.gov.au
Customer Service Centre 13 25 23
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Thanks Len, I'm new to the whole prospecting thing and I was after some genuine answers, i want to make sure im doing the right thing.
That has cleared it all up, thanks for that Len
That has cleared it all up, thanks for that Len
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My pleasure M3....glad to help where I can. Why I contacted Rossco, was because I had notices a lot of confusion in regard to exactly what the QLD says we can't and can use. Really it shouldn't be that hard, but that's what we have to put up with here in QLD. The main problem I see is that the Authorities, sometimes themselves don't know what is in the legislation, and there seems to be some various interpretations.
That's why the petition was compiled to address these laws and the real emotive issue of more access area's for QLD prospectors/fossickers.
Cheers
Len
That's why the petition was compiled to address these laws and the real emotive issue of more access area's for QLD prospectors/fossickers.
Cheers
Len
Len, a very good summary of the legislation and advice from your friend.
The description of Sec 38 is quite exact.
Len, from my experience, every person who reads a piece of legislation has their own slant on its interpretation. The only way you will get a definitive answer is to test it in a court of law. Now, it is very accepted that we don't want any of our forum members getting involved in court situations. If you don't have the skill set to represent your own case, then it starts to get very expensive.
I would love to read any case of precedent in this matter. Don't even know if it has ever been tested in court. Usually when a fossicker gets issued a fine for, say, using machinery, he/she just pays the fine and gets on with life. Much like getting pinched whilst driving your car. Great majority of people just pay up and shut up.
See, in my very humble opinion, the meaning of this very brief section of the act revolves around the definition of the word "Fossick". Clearly you cannot use machinery to fossick, except your metal detector. But does fossicking include washing the dirt that you have already fossicked? As I said in a previous post, pumping water for the purposes of washing is no different to panning in a creek or carrying water by hand to your wash.
The Collins Dictionary describes "fossick" as - "To search for gold or precious stones in abandoned workings, rivers etc". The word "Fossick" is very much an Anglo/Australian word. Each time I type in my posts or into Word, it is underlined in red. Simply means that it is not in the normally used American Dictionary.
As I say, unless it is tested in court, it is up to the interpretation of each inspector or whoever as to what it means. If anyone knows of a precedent, I would love to know. At least we could then get a definitive answer.
Cheers all, and thanks for the great debate.
The description of Sec 38 is quite exact.
Len, from my experience, every person who reads a piece of legislation has their own slant on its interpretation. The only way you will get a definitive answer is to test it in a court of law. Now, it is very accepted that we don't want any of our forum members getting involved in court situations. If you don't have the skill set to represent your own case, then it starts to get very expensive.
I would love to read any case of precedent in this matter. Don't even know if it has ever been tested in court. Usually when a fossicker gets issued a fine for, say, using machinery, he/she just pays the fine and gets on with life. Much like getting pinched whilst driving your car. Great majority of people just pay up and shut up.
See, in my very humble opinion, the meaning of this very brief section of the act revolves around the definition of the word "Fossick". Clearly you cannot use machinery to fossick, except your metal detector. But does fossicking include washing the dirt that you have already fossicked? As I said in a previous post, pumping water for the purposes of washing is no different to panning in a creek or carrying water by hand to your wash.
The Collins Dictionary describes "fossick" as - "To search for gold or precious stones in abandoned workings, rivers etc". The word "Fossick" is very much an Anglo/Australian word. Each time I type in my posts or into Word, it is underlined in red. Simply means that it is not in the normally used American Dictionary.
As I say, unless it is tested in court, it is up to the interpretation of each inspector or whoever as to what it means. If anyone knows of a precedent, I would love to know. At least we could then get a definitive answer.
Cheers all, and thanks for the great debate.
