1.4 ct diamond found while crevicing (not by me, unfortunately)
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Twapster
Peter
I believe a lot of lives have been lost in the "conflict" diamond trade so rules have been put in place to identify supply.
SWright
Steve Wright
G'day Lefty
Twapster is right. Conflict or "blood Diamonds" have been the cause of a great deal of violence and even wars resulting in thousands dying. In 2003 the United Nations Security Council formed the Kimberley Process Certification Scheme. No diamond producer is allowed to trade rough (uncut) diamonds with a country that is not a member of the Scheme and even then each and every rough diamond must be accounted for and approved for export. Countries to which rough diamonds are exported are similarly not allowed to accept them if they are not authorised and recorded. It doesn't matter if the diamond is valued at $1 million or a bit of rubbish worth $1 dollar. They are treated to same way.
This has reduced diamonds being used to fund wars. Also the treatment of people trying to avoid these restrictions are very harsh. I had to do a review of the Scheme as implemented in Thailand a few years ago and the Thais told me that they treat diamond smugglers the same as drug traffickers. needless to say the number of diamond smugglers in Thailand are effectively non-existent.
So if anyone finds a diamond in Australia I would suggest that you get it appraised to determine its value. If it is valuable and you want to cut it - don't do it in Australia as we really don't have anyone with the experience to do it properly, which the exception of Argyle who only cut their own stones. You would want to have it done in India and it will need a Kimberley Process Certificate to export it. Go see www.kimberleyprocess.com. Australian rules are at:
http://www.industry.gov.au/resource/Mining/AustralianMineralCommodities/Diamonds/Pages/default.aspx
Araluen
Twapster is right. Conflict or "blood Diamonds" have been the cause of a great deal of violence and even wars resulting in thousands dying. In 2003 the United Nations Security Council formed the Kimberley Process Certification Scheme. No diamond producer is allowed to trade rough (uncut) diamonds with a country that is not a member of the Scheme and even then each and every rough diamond must be accounted for and approved for export. Countries to which rough diamonds are exported are similarly not allowed to accept them if they are not authorised and recorded. It doesn't matter if the diamond is valued at $1 million or a bit of rubbish worth $1 dollar. They are treated to same way.
This has reduced diamonds being used to fund wars. Also the treatment of people trying to avoid these restrictions are very harsh. I had to do a review of the Scheme as implemented in Thailand a few years ago and the Thais told me that they treat diamond smugglers the same as drug traffickers. needless to say the number of diamond smugglers in Thailand are effectively non-existent.
So if anyone finds a diamond in Australia I would suggest that you get it appraised to determine its value. If it is valuable and you want to cut it - don't do it in Australia as we really don't have anyone with the experience to do it properly, which the exception of Argyle who only cut their own stones. You would want to have it done in India and it will need a Kimberley Process Certificate to export it. Go see www.kimberleyprocess.com. Australian rules are at:
http://www.industry.gov.au/resource/Mining/AustralianMineralCommodities/Diamonds/Pages/default.aspx
Araluen
SWright said:
Where's my popcorn, that should ruffle a few faceting feathers locally..............
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Hangon I thought I was qualified local diamond cutter. maybe Im imagining the sawing bench and the maximat bruiting machine and four place bench with automatic lifter.
Get it cut local,I wont strip search you or x-Ray you and Im not funding anything but a chocolate habit. Just cause you find a diamond doesn't mean you have to race to the nearest government official and beg to be allowed to throw it back in the creek no questions asked. This is about fossicking ,not fear mongering or war funding.
Lefty,I have a 600 sapphire cutting system with your name on it. $550 Basic. Full set and kit $980
Get it cut local,I wont strip search you or x-Ray you and Im not funding anything but a chocolate habit. Just cause you find a diamond doesn't mean you have to race to the nearest government official and beg to be allowed to throw it back in the creek no questions asked. This is about fossicking ,not fear mongering or war funding.
Lefty,I have a 600 sapphire cutting system with your name on it. $550 Basic. Full set and kit $980
SWright
Steve Wright
Hi rough2cut
there are no restrictions on the ownership of trading of or cutting of rough diamonds IN Australia. the restrictions only happen if you want to export it or import it from or to an another country. I don't want to disparage anyone's cutting ability, but with diamonds that may be worth tens of millions or more you will want it cut by the most experienced and best cutters in the world. For cheaper stones it may be worth the risk of cutting them in a lesser known area. Many of the stones we see are very high quality and some are cut by specialist in just one facet on a stone with as many as several specialists working on an individual stone over several years.
Recently I held a 20 million dollar stone and one that has no price on it - it was the size of an apple. It may take a number of years to cut the first and the second will never be cut or sold.
Araluen
there are no restrictions on the ownership of trading of or cutting of rough diamonds IN Australia. the restrictions only happen if you want to export it or import it from or to an another country. I don't want to disparage anyone's cutting ability, but with diamonds that may be worth tens of millions or more you will want it cut by the most experienced and best cutters in the world. For cheaper stones it may be worth the risk of cutting them in a lesser known area. Many of the stones we see are very high quality and some are cut by specialist in just one facet on a stone with as many as several specialists working on an individual stone over several years.
Recently I held a 20 million dollar stone and one that has no price on it - it was the size of an apple. It may take a number of years to cut the first and the second will never be cut or sold.
Araluen
KarlS
Karl
Interesting information. I never thought it takes so long to cut big diamonds.
Karl
Karl
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Funny stuff from a talented diamond cutter . Guess you have to move to India to get a good job eh? Spend a few years pon a single stone ... Or you could just cut that stone for the guy and make him happy .carefull who you listen too people ! Anthony knows what he's on about !rough2cut said:
SWright said:
Given the value of one and the size of the other, I presume these diamonds weren't of Australian origin?
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Sounds good, it'll be a month or two before I can get the dosh together.
Being a complete novice I'm trying to understand how your system works - it's two laps in one by the looks so you move straight from one stage of cutting to the next without having to change laps until you get to the third stage?
SWright
Steve Wright
G'Day All
The first diamond I was talking about was a 20 Carat Blue White. It had no inclusions at all and the finest of white. It was being assessed to cut into two stones. The second was the 616 Diamond so named for it's weight. It is a cloudy yellow diamond and may get some stones but by themselves would not be worth much. Its value is due to it being the world's largest ever perfect octahedral crystal. They were both from Kimberley in South Africa. The large stone was on its way to the crusher when it was spotted on the conveyor belt. It was too large to go through the sieve.
The main reason there is not great cutting industry in Australia is that the Indians dominate the industry with around 80 percent of all stones cut there. We have a small specialized cutting centre that cuts Argyle plus 0.3 carat pinks. All the others including the Ellendale Yellows are sent to Europe and then generally go on to India. Some countries specialise in certain cuts so even the Indians send stones to Thailand for example to do only Process cuts. The really valuable stones are sent to a number of pacing for specialist services like I mentioned before. If you have a 20 million dollar rough you don't want it turned into a hundred dollar tray full of shards and dust.
I know it all sounds a little draconian the way the system works and I am not sure that it is totally justifiable, however it works. Ten years ago around 15 percent of all rough diamonds were smuggled conflict stones. Today its less than a quarter of one percent. The Kimberley Process makes no exception and their response is brutal and does not distinguish between a mistake or not knowing the system and a determined smuggler. All are treated the same and all the diamonds caught or reported a tracked down and destroyed. Its real easy to get permission to export or import so do not be concerned if you want to get a good stone cut. All you have to be is honest and be able to prove ownership.
Araluen
The first diamond I was talking about was a 20 Carat Blue White. It had no inclusions at all and the finest of white. It was being assessed to cut into two stones. The second was the 616 Diamond so named for it's weight. It is a cloudy yellow diamond and may get some stones but by themselves would not be worth much. Its value is due to it being the world's largest ever perfect octahedral crystal. They were both from Kimberley in South Africa. The large stone was on its way to the crusher when it was spotted on the conveyor belt. It was too large to go through the sieve.
The main reason there is not great cutting industry in Australia is that the Indians dominate the industry with around 80 percent of all stones cut there. We have a small specialized cutting centre that cuts Argyle plus 0.3 carat pinks. All the others including the Ellendale Yellows are sent to Europe and then generally go on to India. Some countries specialise in certain cuts so even the Indians send stones to Thailand for example to do only Process cuts. The really valuable stones are sent to a number of pacing for specialist services like I mentioned before. If you have a 20 million dollar rough you don't want it turned into a hundred dollar tray full of shards and dust.
I know it all sounds a little draconian the way the system works and I am not sure that it is totally justifiable, however it works. Ten years ago around 15 percent of all rough diamonds were smuggled conflict stones. Today its less than a quarter of one percent. The Kimberley Process makes no exception and their response is brutal and does not distinguish between a mistake or not knowing the system and a determined smuggler. All are treated the same and all the diamonds caught or reported a tracked down and destroyed. Its real easy to get permission to export or import so do not be concerned if you want to get a good stone cut. All you have to be is honest and be able to prove ownership.
Araluen
Araluen, not being cheeky but it seems Argyle send the majority of their Diamonds to India maybe because it's cheaper to be done there? Or because they do a better job? I think the first is the reason why, as their best Pink stones are retained in WA and cut and polished there as it says on the Rio Tinto website.
It also says that the growing middle classes in India and China and their want for quality stones is another reason their representative offices are in these countries. It goes on to say that majority of customers are Indian based companies.
Anyway reading between the lines tells me there are better cutters here, though it may be prohibitively expensive and there are not enough cutters here to do all the stones they produce except for the very best of the best and most valuable stones they produce such as the Pinks and extremely rare Reds.
Not arguing was just wondering really. I'm a very proud Aussie and think we are as good as anyone else, if not better at whatever we do in this country.
It also says that the growing middle classes in India and China and their want for quality stones is another reason their representative offices are in these countries. It goes on to say that majority of customers are Indian based companies.
Anyway reading between the lines tells me there are better cutters here, though it may be prohibitively expensive and there are not enough cutters here to do all the stones they produce except for the very best of the best and most valuable stones they produce such as the Pinks and extremely rare Reds.
Not arguing was just wondering really. I'm a very proud Aussie and think we are as good as anyone else, if not better at whatever we do in this country.
Heatho said:
If I recall correctly, there were other factors than economic early in the history of Argyle, when South Africa still embraced apartheid and was subject to international boycotts, but de Beers firmly controlled almost all diamond trading globally. The Indians were very keen to develop their own diamond cutting/polishing industry and Argyle was a potential huge new source of uncut stones. The decision to keep Argyle outside the de Beers monopoly relied on having access to alternative cutting and marketing facilities and the Indians played a key role in making this possible.
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This is derailed.
Isn't this about a diamond found here ? ( maybe he dosnt want to cut it) giving advise to send a stone to India and then telling them they can't dosnt really help anyone. When there IS cutters here and CAN do a good job , but telling them there isn't dosnt seem like informed or good advise . I see you have expieriance in this field , though it dosnt really relate to the find . Rough to cut hit it on the head with his post.
Isn't this about a diamond found here ? ( maybe he dosnt want to cut it) giving advise to send a stone to India and then telling them they can't dosnt really help anyone. When there IS cutters here and CAN do a good job , but telling them there isn't dosnt seem like informed or good advise . I see you have expieriance in this field , though it dosnt really relate to the find . Rough to cut hit it on the head with his post.
Kingsolomon said:
On the contrary, it's a fascinating discussion that's lead off into all sorts of unexpected but relevant twists (Is the crystal actually a diamond?) and turns (Are there unanticipated legal restrictions that may apply?). Since the OP isn't the owner of the stone and here to look for advice, none of the resultant discussion can be said to be a derail, IMHO.
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Testing or taking it to a local cutter will reveal its identity fairly quick . But the point I tried to make was ... There is cutters here ( opposite to information provided) . And I don't see any legal restrictions on handing a stone ( here , not India) to be cut.that is ... Sorry bored with topic now.
Someone should start a thread " I know everything about diamonds and you can't get them cut here , only in India and that's not a diamond anyway "
Someone should start a thread " I know everything about diamonds and you can't get them cut here , only in India and that's not a diamond anyway "
Interesting discussion. Just for information, my mail is that the diamond has been tested OK.
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Epic ...
Tell him to get it cut local , if he wants it cut . For an example , Anthony already identified that as a diamond from the photos , others with apparently more expieriance didn't think so . I know who I'd get to have a look at it .
Tell him to get it cut local , if he wants it cut . For an example , Anthony already identified that as a diamond from the photos , others with apparently more expieriance didn't think so . I know who I'd get to have a look at it .
SWright
Steve Wright
G'day all
First of all the great majority of all diamond producers - even the Russians - send their stones to India. There is some truth to the fact that it is cheaper, but the majority reason is that they have the volume, market size and expertise.
Argyle sends ALL its stones to Belgium to be sorted and all the pinks are returned to Australia. The pinks are then sorted to plus and below 0.3 crts and the larger stones are cut hear in order to comply with an Act of the Western Australian government which was a condition of starting the mine in the first place. The smaller pinks are then sent to India. The owners of Argyle at the time did want to stay outside of the de Beers monopoly and that was the beginning of the end for the cartel although the de Beers share of the market is still very large. The market is now far more diversified.
If I have a very valuable or sentimental stone then I would want to send it to a very a experienced cutter. I am not saying that Australian cutters are not competent but as I work in this area I have not seen a single diamond imported to cut in Australia. Some come from Africa from time to time and they are all then sent off to India for cutting. the Ellendale stones are sent for sorting in Belgium and the yellows are all contracted to Tiffany and Co and they have them cut in India. We have to account to the international authorities for every single stone and if we are out by even a fraction of a carat that cannot be accounted for by loss from abrasion to diamond dust then we face the small but real risk of having our diamond mining industry shut down. they have done just this to other countries.
I am not an expert in diamond cutting by any means but I did work for de Beers for quite along time and now look after the export and import of rough diamonds into and out of Australia.
araluen
First of all the great majority of all diamond producers - even the Russians - send their stones to India. There is some truth to the fact that it is cheaper, but the majority reason is that they have the volume, market size and expertise.
Argyle sends ALL its stones to Belgium to be sorted and all the pinks are returned to Australia. The pinks are then sorted to plus and below 0.3 crts and the larger stones are cut hear in order to comply with an Act of the Western Australian government which was a condition of starting the mine in the first place. The smaller pinks are then sent to India. The owners of Argyle at the time did want to stay outside of the de Beers monopoly and that was the beginning of the end for the cartel although the de Beers share of the market is still very large. The market is now far more diversified.
If I have a very valuable or sentimental stone then I would want to send it to a very a experienced cutter. I am not saying that Australian cutters are not competent but as I work in this area I have not seen a single diamond imported to cut in Australia. Some come from Africa from time to time and they are all then sent off to India for cutting. the Ellendale stones are sent for sorting in Belgium and the yellows are all contracted to Tiffany and Co and they have them cut in India. We have to account to the international authorities for every single stone and if we are out by even a fraction of a carat that cannot be accounted for by loss from abrasion to diamond dust then we face the small but real risk of having our diamond mining industry shut down. they have done just this to other countries.
I am not an expert in diamond cutting by any means but I did work for de Beers for quite along time and now look after the export and import of rough diamonds into and out of Australia.
araluen
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