Tips for new facetors

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Instead of highjacking the 'show n tell' thread I've started this hoping to work out a few of the bugs in my cutting.

I guess the big one is transfering after cutting the pavilion.
I take my time.
I line everything up.
Then I pushing it all together thinking I have it perfect. (At this stage it is now covering the joint with epoxy too.)
But, it's far from perfect and it's not until I'm part way through cutting the crown that I realise this fact.

The 2nd biggest bug is over cutting.
My machine doesn't have any digital help. So I'm just setting the height and going for it.
But after one full revolution of the stone the ones at index 64 and 32 are always under cut, so I cut deeper, only to find I've cut through too far and into the girdle.
Am I just too heavy handed at times? Should I need to put extra pressure on the quill at all?

The 3rd one really got to me. The window.
I've watched countless videos on how to do it but there is something wrong at my end.
Just when I think I have it cut right, I change to a pre polish disc only to find the height is different because of the difference in thickness of the two discs. And my final polishing disc is even thicker.
I thought so long as the cut was correct, then the other steps would be at the same setting only at a different height due to disc thickness. Like a drill press.
But every time I change discs, I have to adjust the angle again.
Is it the tower out of line? Or am I missing something else.

I've had fantastic feedback from this forum so far so I'm hopeful I'll get the right advice again here. It could be ongoing the way things are going.

Just for good measure I'm starting on a stone that should take me a couple of weeks to do. I've got a few pieces of sapphire sitting there itching to be cut so I'm going to give one a go. I'll be ordering the diamond 50,000 for the polish as Dihusky has advised.
It's only small. 10mm x 13mm and 10mm thick. That should fill in the time while I'm waiting for my previous stones to come off the dops in the nail polish remover.

Any suggestions on the cut?

1643012212_sapphire_rough.jpg
 
You shouldn't be changing the angle every time, because the lap is thicker, mine are the same three different thicknesses, just adjust the height!
Is there a gem club you can get started with? Has your machine got a dial gauge fitted? if so use it, a big help.

I would hang onto the sapphire for a while yet.

Cheers Pro-oz
 
Okay Badge, where do we start... :(

1. Transfer. I dop with faceting wax to start then transfer with JB quick set, but leave for 24hrs before cutting, you don't need much. Alignment problems following transfer are very common and often caused by the quill being out of alignment rotationally, the pavilion is fine but if out of alignment when transferred the error is 2X.

Solution is to methodically go through all the machine alignments starting with the master lap and spindle, a stone should touch the lap at 3 equally spaced points on the outside edge of the lap and there should be zero variation. On your machine this can be best done with a feeler gauge.

Once this is correct, then the rotational alignment can be done.

Download this PDF it is a good explanation on all of this: http://lapidaryworld.com/pdf/faceting_machine_alignment.pdf

2. Cutting is a process of allowing the lap to fully cut under very light to zero pressure and listening. A lot of beginners think the cut is finished but it isn't, this is where under and over cutting occur. Once you hear it, you'll understand

3. All laps vary in thickness, this is normal. You raise the work then lower onto the lap, it's how we all do it.

4. Once you've set an angle, you never change it until the cut is finished. Do you have a table setting dop? It's a dop with a round disc that is placed on the lap and aligned until it has 100% contact with the lap. Now you're set to cut the table.

5. Sapphire :awful: you're not ready, please don't run before you can walk :) Sapphire requires very specific dopping alignment, around 7 degrees off the cross table as a start, otherwise it won't polish.

So back to alignment, get your machine aligned, then pick a large piece of quartz and do a simple emerald cut or a step cut cushion so that there is no stepping on the girdle or any other facets, look at the garnet Martyz put up and look at the meets, that's your target. This you need to achieve as it will teach you a huge amount about the machine and how to fully use it.

Also discover what a 'reference' of 'registration' facet is and how it's used.
 
Pro-oz said:
You shouldn't be changing the angle every time, because the lap is thicker, mine are the same three different thicknesses, just adjust the height!
Is there a gem club you can get started with? Has your machine got a dial gauge fitted? if so use it, a big help.

I would hang onto the sapphire for a while yet.

Cheers Pro-oz

The nearest Lapidary Club is an hour and a half away. We live in the North Burnett region so Bundaberg, Hervey Bay are options but their times and mine need to line up. A bit like the tower I think. No, I don't think it has a dial gauge fitted, because I don't know what one is.
Thanks for the response Pro-oz.
Badge.
 
Dihusky said:
Okay Badge, where do we start... :(

1. Transfer. I dop with faceting wax to start then transfer with JB quick set, but leave for 24hrs before cutting, you don't need much. Alignment problems following transfer are very common and often caused by the quill being out of alignment rotationally, the pavilion is fine but if out of alignment when transferred the error is 2X.

Solution is to methodically go through all the machine alignments starting with the master lap and spindle, a stone should touch the lap at 3 equally spaced points on the outside edge of the lap and there should be zero variation. On your machine this can be best done with a feeler gauge.

Once this is correct, then the rotational alignment can be done.

Download this PDF it is a good explanation on all of this: http://lapidaryworld.com/pdf/faceting_machine_alignment.pdf

2. Cutting is a process of allowing the lap to fully cut under very light to zero pressure and listening. A lot of beginners think the cut is finished but it isn't, this is where under and over cutting occur. Once you hear it, you'll understand

3. All laps vary in thickness, this is normal. You raise the work then lower onto the lap, it's how we all do it.

4. Once you've set an angle, you never change it until the cut is finished. Do you have a table setting dop? It's a dop with a round disc that is placed on the lap and aligned until it has 100% contact with the lap. Now you're set to cut the table.

5. Sapphire :awful: you're not ready, please don't run before you can walk :) Sapphire requires very specific dopping alignment, around 7 degrees off the cross table as a start, otherwise it won't polish.

So back to alignment, get your machine aligned, then pick a large piece of quartz and do a simple emerald cut or a step cut cushion so that there is no stepping on the girdle or any other facets, look at the garnet Martyz put up and look at the meets, that's your target. This you need to achieve as it will teach you a huge amount about the machine and how to fully use it.

Also discover what a 'reference' of 'registration' facet is and how it's used.

Thanks for all the info Dihusky. That's heaps to take in. You never fail to impress. And that PDF will keep me busy for a while. :awful: No pain, no gain.

The dopping part is probably just me being too eager to get going again. And I just had some new dops arrive in the mail and they seem to fit in the transfer jig better.

Yes I will attempt the step cut cushion next. I won't be getting any results like Martyz did but I'll give it a go.

I watched a video where the guy said the Spindle Axis and the Pivot Axis need to be exact. I don't think mine is exact, hence the 64 and 32 index being the facets under cutting. I was thinking the tower might not be true to the Spindle Axis.
But do you think the quill/index may be out of whack? It has 3 grub screws holding it onto the yoke? or body whatever it's called. I haven't tried to adjust it yet, but I did pull it out because is was all gummy and needed a good clean and lube. :argh: I seem to be asking you a lot mate, and I hope I'm not overdoing it.

I'm due to travel down the Brisbane RBWH in the next month or so (depending on Qld Health). You mentioned living in SE Qld so maybe a quick visit on my trip to the Dihusky masterclass to knock the faceter into shape? I'll email you to talk shop well before my appointment to see if it's OK.
Meanwhile I'll let the sapphires sit there and tempt me for a bit longer. And I'll show the piece of quartz I just finished. Full of inclusions but that's why I used it rather than waste good stones. I wouldn't polish well because of the inclusions throughout it. A bit like polishing a :poop:

Cheers.
Badge.

1643021774_yellow_quartz_1.jpg
 
I really do feel your pain badge. Be good if you had some one to get you started on the basics like I had, and then do a lesson at the gem club.

Don't give up, we all had to learn and still learning. What you need I think is someone on your machine their with you, hands on best way.

Cheers
 
The first thing I learnt about my transfer error was - I was tightening the clamps too tight and putting the whole alignment out of whack. It is the same as standing on a rod of aluminium and bending the corners up. Just align the two dops together in the clamp and slightly tighten the clamps down, no pressure.

When changing laps, undo the spindle on the mast and allow it to slide down until it just touches the lap. If you have a mast grub screw, even better. Laps vary in degrees of thickness, so just slide the spindle up and down the mast to compensate, don't wind up or down using mast heightener.

Good luck, but don't worry in your pursuit of perfection. The Husky will help you get there.
 
Thanks Pat Hogan.
The transfer jig tip is noted. I have just received a few new brass dop sticks (I only had thinner auminium ones to pick from and they were all marked and pitted) and they seem to be lining up much better, so I'll be sure not to tighten the jig too much.

Yes Dihusky is a wealth of knowledge and has been a huge help to date. I just hope I don't chase him off with all the questions.

Cheers.
Badge.
 
Dihusky said:
I'm a couple of hours south of Toowoomba Badge, I'll also message a mate of mine in your area and see if anyone is running any faceting courses so you can get on the right track.

We often go down to Glendon Camping Ground near Warwick so any detour will suit me. And thanks for looking around for someone else to help set me up right.

Where I was getting less cut at index 64 and 32, I found that it was my fault for not taking closer notice.
When placing the dop into the quill I have 4 grub screws, two forward and two rear. The problem was the dop wasn't aligned exactly in the middle. I spent longer placing the dop in today and had no problems with it. This particular quill isn't like the ones I've seen on videos where there is a pointed grub screw to locate the dop in the right alignment.
Will that convert to the window problem? I don't know. I'll find that out tomorrow after the dop has been transfered (which I did with the feeling the eyes of you and Pat Hogen were watching me). :lol:

I really appreciate the assistance I've received from everyone that's commented on this and the other thread. You in particular. I owe you a few beers down the track. :beer:

Cheers.
Badge.
 
Well I picked out a piece of quartz because it looked different to what I thought quartz was, but it definately is quartz of some kind.
Only a small piece, the larger one I'm working on is giving me grief. :argh:

Is this Smokey Quartz?
Or just a piece of ordinary quartz with a hue?

1643199935_smokey.jpg


A long way to go yet I know but getting better I think. The input from the forum has been invaluable.

Cheers.
Badge.
 
Looks like smokey, good work.
I find taking a photo of a cut gem very difficult, to get the best from the stone. But that's another subject, that I'm about to get back onto then start posting photos.

Cheers Pro-oz.
 
Smokey Quartz is ordinary quartz with a hue, same as citrine, amethyst, rose, aventurine ... it is the hue which decides how desirable is their ordinariness. :Y: Maybe change the classification from ordinary to clear, just to suit your happiness with cutting whatever piece of stone you choose to turn into a gem.
 
Pro-oz said:
Looks like smokey, good work.
I find taking a photo of a cut gem very difficult, to get the best from the stone. But that's another subject, that I'm about to get back onto then start posting photos.

Cheers Pro-oz.

Thanks Pro-oz. Working with a handicap it seems. I decided to clean the spindle (I think it is called) and inside the quill only to find two bearings instead of 3.
I'll try to upload a pic.

1643251239_back_4.jpg


Geez don't start me on photos. I took about 30 of that stone and this is the only one even near to showing it's true shine and glitter.
Then, making it small enough for the forum to accept it removes some of the photo's clarity, well I think it does. I went from a RAW photo to a JPG then shrunk using Paint on the pc only to get the message 'this photo is too big'. Then go through Paint again to repeat the process a few more times. Yet the pics I've seen on this forum are exceptional. There must be a better way.

Cheers.
Badge.
 
No it's not central mate. There are only 2 bearings, not 3.
Probably why I was having so much trouble with index 64 and 32, because it caused a variation in the angle.
I just tried to get the other 2 out to see if I could take it to a bearing place but can't them out so I have no idea how the guy who owned the machine before me got that one out.

It's a very old Gemmasta GFE3 so that tiny little part might be hard to find.
 
Gday Badge,
A quick tip for photographing your stones;
Clean your stone free from dust and lint.
Place on an equally clean mirror.
Find the right light to show some depth of colour.
Dont hold your phone too close.
Crop the photo using the editing function on your phone.
I use an iPhone 7S which is a few years old but does the job. You will still have to take a few photos but you can get a reasonable result that shouldnt have any problems loading.
 

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