Living with Electric Vehicles

[user 4386]

That's probably true , but anytime after that period you would have to prepare to pay that cost , say you double that and get 16 years it's still costing you $43.50 a week plus power usage charges. It makes me sick when politicians come out and make remarks if people aren't happy with fuel cost then go buy an electric car. Who has 100k to pluck out of their A hole for one and be prepared to possibly fork out another 30k in 8 years if the battery dies.

It is the replacement that is the issue - the first one comes as part of the price you know you are paying for the car. However it would be a good battery that lasted 16 years!. Ten is more realistic (if you don't use a super-fast charger), and of course the warranty is only that it will still hold 70% (e.g.) charge after 8 years, or about 160,000 km (whichever comes first).
Ford - 'Your battery is covered for 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, retaining a minimum of 70% of its original capacity over that period" The average age of Australian cars is 10 years. And although most private usage will be under 160,000 km (more like 105,000 km average over 8 years), commercial vehicles will typically do that in less than 8 years.

I think some people are in for a shock, and information is not being honestly presented to the public. Nevertheless, I might get a little EV for local commuting, as they are fairly well suited for that, using home solar charging..

 

[grubstake]

Here's an Australian look at the battery replacement issue:
https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/how-much-does-it-cost-to-replace-an-ev-battery-136621/

 

[mbasko]

My 2014 diesel 4wd is heading for 205,000km in just under 9 years. Still going strong with no major mechanical issues.
I don't think electric will suit me.

 

[user 22230]

Here's an Australian look at the battery replacement issue:
https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/how-much-does-it-cost-to-replace-an-ev-battery-136621/

I have two 4B's that cost me less than 2K in total for both so that leaves me a lot of change for fuel I guess Maybe one day who knows? But can't ever see myself in one as simply not suitable for the purpose I use a vehicle for.

 

[Moneybox]

I have two 4B's that cost me less than 2K in total for both so that leaves me a lot of change for fuel I guess Maybe one day who knows? But can't ever see myself in one as simply not suitable for the purpose I use a vehicle for.

You and I and many others will pickup vehicles disposed of after their useful 10 year life. That is after the initial owner has put up with the niggling problems that come with many new vehicles, they are usually sorted out by then. We might be struggling to get as good a deal if we have to buy a used EV?

 

[user 22230]

You and I and many others will pickup vehicles disposed of after their useful 10 year life. That is after the initial owner has put up with the niggling problems that come with many new vehicles, they are usually sorted out by then. We might be struggling to get as good a deal if we have to buy a used EV?

Sadly to true that MB. Have three now actually being another was given to me the other day. Two hundred dollars plus some rego and she's good to go. My old 2001 Pajero Exceed I got for a grand four years ago, have done over a 100 thou since I got it needed it's first repair yesterday. Cracked header pipe, welded up and done should be good for another four years. I even gave it a wash.

 

[Moneybox]

I've been through the Lithium battery cycle with my electric hand tools. I have a chainsaw, a wipper snipper, a couple of electric drills, a hand plane, a router, a 125mm angle grinder and perhaps more. All are AEG, so a decent brand and all are at risk of being made redundant due to premature battery failure.

The last electric hand tool I bought plugs into the wall and was to replace a recently burned out 20yr old Bosch angle grinder. The new one is one of the best tools I've bought. It cuts much faster and it's lighter than the battery powered units and I have no doubt it will still be grinding on at maximum performance well into the next decade.

 

[user 22230]

Yes electric has it limitations in many different scenarios. Went thru the same thing when thinking of purchasing an electric chain saw for cutting paths thru scrub for SBS. Unless one carried spare batteries, would most likely get half way thru a dense scrub area and be faced with a flat battery. Plus Stihl battery job was well over $500 and a Bunnings Homelite 12" bar petrol $99 and won't go flat

 

[Pete E]

I remember seeing proposed design for a Yank recce vehicle for the American military...It was a hybrid diesel electric...the design utilised 4 small electric motors mounted on the road wheels which basically done away with all the regular transmission components. The diesel motor was designed to run at a constant speed to act as a generator to keep a moderately sized battery charged. Acceleration and variations in speed was accomplished by the electric motors...it was envisaged it would be able to run on just the battery if the tactical situation warranted it, but only for a relatively short time, say a couple of hours at low speeds....

I thought the four motor solution sounded really interesting although I think it might be better suited to civvie use..

Using two or four small motors surely has to be the way forward rather simply replacing a large fossil fuel engine with a large electric motor??

 

[user 22230]

I remember seeing proposed design for a Yank recce vehicle for the American military...It was a hybrid diesel electric...the design utilised 4 small electric motors mounted on the road wheels which basically done away with all the regular transmission components. The diesel motor was designed to run at a constant speed to act as a generator to keep a moderately sized battery charged. Acceleration and variations in speed was accomplished by the electric motors...it was envisaged it would be able to run on just the battery if the tactical situation warranted it, but only for a relatively short time, say a couple of hours at low speeds....

I thought the four motor solution sounded really interesting although I think it might be better suited to civvie use..

Using two or four small motors surely has to be the way forward rather simply replacing a large fossil fuel engine with a large electric motor??

Probably same theory as a diesel loco and also the big mining Euclids use a motor in each wheel also I believe ?

 

[Moneybox]

Perhaps this will add to our export trade, Cubed 10yr old EV's going home for recycling.

 

[grubstake]

Perhaps this will add to our export trade, Cubed 10yr old EV's going home for recycling.

Except it isn't. It's an uninsured vehicle being removed from British roads.
https://askmid.com/

 

[Moneybox]

Except it isn't. It's an uninsured vehicle being removed from British roads.
https://askmid.com/

The photo was just illustrating a cubed vehicle. What I was saying is that perhaps when the battery life is done these vehicles will be scrapped as most of the components will be made from recyclable material. If they labeled it right you could drop it in the bin for your 10c refund.

 

[Skiffed]

It is the replacement that is the issue - the first one comes as part of the price you know you are paying for the car. However it would be a good battery that lasted 16 years!. Ten is more realistic (if you don't use a super-fast charger), and of course the warranty is only that it will still hold 70% (e.g.) charge after 8 years, or about 160,000 km (whichever comes first).
Ford - 'Your battery is covered for 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, retaining a minimum of 70% of its original capacity over that period" The average age of Australian cars is 10 years. And although most private usage will be under 160,000 km (more like 105,000 km average over 8 years), commercial vehicles will typically do that in less than 8 years.

I think some people are in for a shock, and information is not being honestly presented to the public. Nevertheless, I might get a little EV for local commuting, as they are fairly well suited for that, using home solar charging..

It will be very interesting to see what the EV's fetch on the used car market after 10 years. Not much I expect.

 

[user 4386]

It will be very interesting to see what the EV's fetch on the used car market after 10 years. Not much I expect.

It will depend on how the used battery and reconditioned battery market has grown. At the moment you can get reconditioned batteries for around $3,000 with a 2 year warranty, although they claim that they should have a life much like a new one. We just have so few EVs on the road in Australia (less than enough for a single rural town) and we have not had them long enough for batteries to go out of warranty.

 

[Moneybox]

It will depend on how the used battery and reconditioned battery market has grown. At the moment you can get reconditioned batteries for around $3,000 with a 2 year warranty, although they claim that they should have a life much like a new one. We just have so few EVs on the road in Australia (less than enough for a single rural town) and we have not had them long enough for batteries to go out of warranty.

That would make you wonder how they've had the time and returned products to have developed a reconditioned battery market.

 

[user 4386]

That would make you wonder how they've had the time and returned products to have developed a reconditioned battery market.

That is why I said that it will depend on how the replacement market has grown (in Australia) by the time batteries start failing. It is well-established where there have long been EVs. "almost a million electric cars have been sold in the US from the end of 2010 until September 2011" - that is 12 years. and of course battery design was not initially as good as it is now. By end 2022 there were 40,000 EVs on Australian roads (out of nearly 20 million vehicles). However I doubt the figure is so high in the USA. Nevertheless a lot have been sold in other countries (I suspect 2011 should read 2021 in the above). Since, "At the end of 2021, just over 10 million vehicles on the road worldwide were battery electric vehicles". There are 1,400 million vehicles of all types on the World's roads.

Sales DO NOT appear to have taken off to the extent commonly implied in the press, and there seems to have been near-silence on the battery-life implications. I would still get one for local running around - so long as you don't go for a super-charged Tesla batteries can be under $A10,000 new, and if you are home much of most days, solar topping up from a standard power source will make recharging negligible. We can do that, but it probably would not be possible for most people.

Ultimately numbers will be large and batteries better and cheaper - I just feel that people should be better advised right now.

 

[EVIE/BEE]

Solar power top ups.
No fear of arc over there.

 

[user 4386]

Solar power top ups.
No fear of arc over there.

???? not a feature at the plug where you are charging, and not really an issue anyway with a microinverter

 

[EVIE/BEE]

???? not a feature at the plug where you are charging, and not really an issue anyway with a microinverter

That's what i said.