It aready exists since 1 July 2021 in Victoria ( 2.5 cents per kilometre). Only a real optimist would believe this would not increase with time.
Living with Electric Vehicles
- Thread starter Ridge Runner
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Charging at home overnight is not free.
It will probably be the most expensive of all.
No, it is not free, but most reviews say it can be up to 50% cheaper than public charging stations. It all depends on what you are being charged per KwH at home versus what the charging station charges you per KwH. You hunt around to get the best price you can at home from a supplier on contract, but are at the mercy of what a charging station wants to charge,
The formula to work it out at a basic level is: EV Battery Size (kWh) x Electricity Rate ($ per kWh) = Charging Cost ($).
So a 60kWh battery and an electricity rate of $0.50 per kWh, you would be looking at charging your EV at a total cost of $35.75.
Your costs are also reduced if you have rooftop solar installed and if you charge your EV when rates are low, through the early hours of the morning, for example.
One thing they don't mention is that it costs $1000 - $2000 to get a charging station installed at your home. Then there is the higher cost of the car and replacement battery (every ten years - necessary to even sell it then), the cost of getting the replacement battery installed after 8-10 (say $1500) and a state tax per km to replace the fuel excise. Other issues include a drop of up to 30% in battery efficiency over 8 years, the fact that you should not let the battery drop below 15% before recharging. Probably still cheaper than hydrocarbons, but not so much as they claim, and dependent on your km driven per year (your battery is still dying over time regardless of km driven). And art the moment not so great for regular long trips.
This is why I say I want to see an accurate TOTAL cost - dealers, greens and governments are pushing them without giving overall costs. Which is why I am holding off as long as practicable before deciding to replace our little runabout.
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Yep and Over here my power bill for electricity only not including the standing charge has gone up by 166% in the last 4 months PLUS TAX @5% So even though the GOV says we're going to be carbon Nutural by 2030 The fuel companies are maxing on the cost of Diesel and such But in 8 Years time when all new cars have to be EV's they will have already Ramped up the price of Electricity to cover the Cost of what they will be loosing on Unleaded and Diesel, So don't be fooled this is what is going on over here right now and shell and BP have made Quarterly profits of 7 and 8 Billion Pounds from July to September this year for the 3rd quarter in a row, Each of them have made almost 30 Billion Pounds in the UK alone so far this year because of the massive price rises for petrol and Diesel,
I'm so glad I bought my Van.
I read the same - but when I check what BP are making up to the present, it does not look such stupendous exploitation as made out:
Headlines are always how many billions companies are making, not what % profit they are making. If you put a million in the bank you would be pretty dark if they only gave you the same number of dollars interest as someone who put a thousand dollars in the bank. And given that petroleum companies all invest trillions to hundreds of billions in their oilfields, it is much the same story - it is one of the most expensive businesses to get into. Even looking for more, every single exploration drill hole is costing millions of dollars each. And the overwhelming majority are dry. And BP and Shell buy and re-sell oil (so are dependent on the prices of suppliers), and BP took a hit having to pull out of Russia.
https://www.reuters.com/business/en...t-stake-russian-oil-giant-rosneft-2022-02-27/
We know why it has jumped very recently - because the cost of oil supplied by countries like Saudi Arabia is now used and they can call the tune on price. "Russia’s aggression meant that countries relying on its oil had to either cut it out completely, or continue buying from Russia, in turn fueling the invasion. The countries choosing the former found themselves buying oil from other sources, such as the US or Saudi Arabia". Saudi Arabia has taken advantage by REDUCING its production. Possibly they do not love the West for saying it will make EVs compulsory (a bit like our meat imoportaers announcing they were legislationg for their populations to go vegan. Another factor is increased fuel demand post-covid.
Other factors to consider - electricity may climb in the future but what will the petrol price be doing? You really need a crystal ball when making comparisons - especially when we have our fingers crossed that we will not go into hyperinflation. Will oil be cheaper because of less demand (I doubt it, anyone who thinks we will all be carbon-neutral by 2035 believes in the tooth fairy. Or will it be, despite potential in the ground, will companies reduce exploration because they think future demand won't be there, and create a shortage for the future?
And in terms of size and profits:
Sinopec (China Petroleum & Chemical Corporation) is the leading global oil and gas company by revenues generated. In its 2021 fiscal year, the Chinese state-owned enterprise generated 438.69 billion U.S. dollars in revenues.
Leading global oil and gas producers based on revenue 2022
Published by N. Sönnichsen, Aug 11, 2022Sinopec (China Petroleum & Chemical Corporation) is the leading global oil and gas company by revenues generated. In its 2021 fiscal year, the Chinese state-owned enterprise generated 438.69 billion U.S. dollars in revenues.
State-owned enterprises are largest producers
State-owned businesses are among the largest within the oil and gas industry. Saudi Arabia's Saudi Aramco is the leading oil company worldwide based on daily oil production, at over nine million barrels per day. This is significantly more than the daily output of BP. At two million barrels of crude oil per day, it is the largest producer among public companies not majority owned by any state. The United Kingdom-based oil and gas giant BP generated 136.2 billion U.S. dollars in revenues in its 2020 fiscal, ranking it behind Big Oil competitors ExxonMobil and Shell.
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I not been following this thread or read it....yet..........
...wat does get me is that all the electric cars use lithium battery's.... yeh ... ???
...so a battery lasts say 10 yrs...15 max.....so ...hey...you get a new battery or the car is gone....ok...
so now...wat happens to the big lithium battery ????? no one in aust recycles them...
...I work in a recycling yard n not allowed to touch them...they get moved on...
...........so in land fill they go i would say.....oh gooodie.....I wonder wat sort of good stuff they leach out....
find out in the future i spose....just my thoughts....dave...
...wat does get me is that all the electric cars use lithium battery's.... yeh ... ???
...so a battery lasts say 10 yrs...15 max.....so ...hey...you get a new battery or the car is gone....ok...
so now...wat happens to the big lithium battery ????? no one in aust recycles them...
...I work in a recycling yard n not allowed to touch them...they get moved on...
...........so in land fill they go i would say.....oh gooodie.....I wonder wat sort of good stuff they leach out....
find out in the future i spose....just my thoughts....dave...
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I read in the Herald Sun today, a guy had a pop up, lockable charger installed on his footpath, as he doesn't have a garage. Cost about $6000, plus $214 for the permit, plus $100 annual fee. And on and on it goes!
Numbers - only 50,000 vehicles here at present and most still have operating batteries. They are recycling overseas and a company is starting here. They are valuable.
Collection logistics
While it may seem that the key to efficient LIB recycling is product preparation prior to hydrometallurgical recovery, in fact that is not the case. The greatest challenge remains logistics – collecting enough batteries to support a viable enterprise. An inability to aggregate the feed for recycling plants is the main reason that recycling rates remain so low.Partnering with Envirostream Australia
Given the CSIRO’s April 2019 forecast that the amount of discarded LIBs in Australia will grow from the 3,300 tonnes recorded in 2016 to between 100,000 and 188,000 tonnes by 2036, Lithium Australia believes more efficient recycling of battery waste is imperative.Therefore, Lithium Australia has invested in the logistical infrastructure necessary to recycle LIBs through a partnership with Envirostream Australia, which supports battery recycling nationwide and will apply its collection know-how to other jurisdictions in due course.
https://www.lithium-au.com/recycling/
- Envirostream is one of Australia’s only dedicated lithium battery recycling companies and is already involved in processing EV batteries. In 2019, the company also signed a partnership with LG to recycle its home solar battery systems. Envirostream is based in Melbourne and recently announced it is building a second facility with an expanded capacity.
- Ecobatt is another Melbourne-based company that recycles all types of consumer lithium batteries and is now offering EV battery pack services. The company also has 2,000 collection bins around the country and even offers certified pickup services for larger or damaged batteries.
- Ecoactiv recycles lithium batteries of all kinds, in addition to solar panels. The company has an Australia-wide pickup service and accepts more than 20 different types of lithium batteries, including packs from EVs.
- B-Cycle is Australia’s official battery recycling scheme and has thousands of drop-off points around the country. Currently, B-Cycle does not accept lithium batteries from phones or laptops, but does process batteries from items such as power tools, digital cameras, and e-bikes.
- The Australian Battery Recycling Initiative (ABRI) is a collection of manufacturers, recyclers, retailers, government bodies, and environmental groups working to promote battery recycling. The ABRI website has some great resources and a directory of recycling facilities around Australia.
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I am seeing things hit a lot harder over here, Last week I went to buy 2x 465g / 1Lb propane bottles for a new Camping Heater I bought where the sellers jacked up the price to $87.62c for a total of 930g of LPG, where it is now cheaper for me to Drive and Buy Gas about 300ks away than it is to buy local,
Now I am having to Import stuff from overseas because every day Items pricewise have gone ballistic, Where the average price of Diesel is $3.56/L and higher,
It's all very well to make excuses for the Oil and Gas companies when people can't afford to heat their homes or run their Vehicle, BUT In the first 9 months of this year the Oil and Gas compaies profits are 3x and 4x higher than they were for the whole of last year and they still have to add the profits for this last Quarter Yet they claim to have lost 25 billion Dollars because of backing out of russian Fuels, But they have already made close to 30 billion Pounds NOT Dollars in 9 months So they have alread covered that 25 billion Dollars by making 34 Billion Dollars out of the UK Alone and by time this year is over If 34 billion equals 11.4 billion per Quarter then at the end of the year they will have made around 46.4 Billion Dollars out of the UK alone,
It's not a good thing when a One oil company Alone in the UK Only has made $703.00 profit for Every Man Woman and Child in the Country Not including Shell, Esso and about 5 or 6 others while the people are suffering because of it, There's something wrong with that picture.
Now I am having to Import stuff from overseas because every day Items pricewise have gone ballistic, Where the average price of Diesel is $3.56/L and higher,
It's all very well to make excuses for the Oil and Gas companies when people can't afford to heat their homes or run their Vehicle, BUT In the first 9 months of this year the Oil and Gas compaies profits are 3x and 4x higher than they were for the whole of last year and they still have to add the profits for this last Quarter Yet they claim to have lost 25 billion Dollars because of backing out of russian Fuels, But they have already made close to 30 billion Pounds NOT Dollars in 9 months So they have alread covered that 25 billion Dollars by making 34 Billion Dollars out of the UK Alone and by time this year is over If 34 billion equals 11.4 billion per Quarter then at the end of the year they will have made around 46.4 Billion Dollars out of the UK alone,
It's not a good thing when a One oil company Alone in the UK Only has made $703.00 profit for Every Man Woman and Child in the Country Not including Shell, Esso and about 5 or 6 others while the people are suffering because of it, There's something wrong with that picture.
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Gavin of Garfield
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In Australia, not to sure on other countries I'm not to concerned regards oil company profits. A man works he gets paid. If the government didn't collect as an example the 20 odd billion dollars in excise (20 -21 figures) I'm pretty sure the price at the bowser would drop quite considerably? Mind you tax has already been paid on the money your paying for it with also 
If you add then another 20 odd billion from cigarettes and alcohol that's pretty good nicker and all coming out of the pockets of the bloke trying to put food on the table and a roof over his families head. Not to sure just how much further the average aussie can be bent over
If you add then another 20 odd billion from cigarettes and alcohol that's pretty good nicker and all coming out of the pockets of the bloke trying to put food on the table and a roof over his families head. Not to sure just how much further the average aussie can be bent over
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Never a Truer word Said,In Australia, not to sure on other countries I'm not to concerned regards oil company profits. A man works he gets paid. If the government didn't collect as an example the 20 odd billion dollars in excise (20 -21 figures) I'm pretty sure the price at the bowser would drop quite considerably? Mind you tax has already been paid on the money your paying for it with also
If you add then another 20 odd billion from cigarettes and alcohol that's pretty good nicker and all coming out of the pockets of the bloke trying to put food on the table and a roof over his families head. Not to sure just how much further the average aussie can be bent over
This ramping of the fuel and electricity prices is really going wreck the Idea of owning an EV, and they're standard Home charger are not that steep to get put in But what they never said was Once it's put in "Who" Owns it, Is it still theirs and are people going to have to pay a standing Charge On a Daily bases like we do for the Grid connection,
The other downside to owning an EV is you can't exactly carry spare power in a Jerry Can as of yet and the portable pack they make only holds about 5 Kwh.
It is not a case of "making excuses" for oil companies, it is a case of quoting correct figures rather than media hype. For example BP:
which is a bit different to 300-400% higher.
So one needs to also look at other reasons why fuel costs more at the pump etc (the cost of oil companies buying from Saudi Arabia, excise? increased transport costs). Aren't you paying 52 p per litre excise in the UK for unleaded? Your price per litre in p is nearly the same as ours in cents, despite our currency being worth half as much. There is also a lag time between oil prices dropping and prices at the pump dropping, related to transport and refining. Crude oil prices have been in decline since March. Propane has shot up because someone blew up the gas pipeline and because Europe is no longer buying Russian gas, which was a major supplier.
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I see the effects of what they are doing everyday and it is what it is, And I'm the one who has to live with it..
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The whole electric vehicle thing is just hypocritical,
For one it's going to see a increase in extremely destructive mining by 50%or even more ,you own stupid government said this already .
There's 17 more high energy processes to making lithium batteries for these vehicles, Then there's the need to recharge everyone's EVs every other night ,which will put more strain on a failing grid of about 20 air conditioners running at once per household so they now need a grid of 300% more capabilities than we currently have ,and then there's the disposal of highly toxic and dangerous lithium batteries ,thats already been mentioned in this post ,
Now tell me what's green about it, except for the green bills people are pocketing from this whole narrative scam ,
So just remember when any active volcano puts out any litte eruption that one burp just put out more CO2 emissions then man has in his entire existence, and they say there doing it for the good of the planet .
For one it's going to see a increase in extremely destructive mining by 50%or even more ,you own stupid government said this already .
There's 17 more high energy processes to making lithium batteries for these vehicles, Then there's the need to recharge everyone's EVs every other night ,which will put more strain on a failing grid of about 20 air conditioners running at once per household so they now need a grid of 300% more capabilities than we currently have ,and then there's the disposal of highly toxic and dangerous lithium batteries ,thats already been mentioned in this post ,
Now tell me what's green about it, except for the green bills people are pocketing from this whole narrative scam ,
So just remember when any active volcano puts out any litte eruption that one burp just put out more CO2 emissions then man has in his entire existence, and they say there doing it for the good of the planet .
I don't question the pain, just who is getting the best deal out of it. Although you might be paying 200p/l. companies like BP are getting only 22p/litre more now than they were getting over the last few years.
What BP gets prior to excise tax = 71.58 p/l (including delivery to service station) - this was closer to 50 p/l over previous few years
Add fuel excise = 52.95 p/l
= Price to service station from BP = 124.53 p/l
Add price added at service station = 41.46 p/l
= price at service station prior to VAT = 165.96 p/l
+20% VAT = 33.19 p/l
= price sold to you = 199.15 p/l
Breakdown:
BP gets 71.58 p/l after producing or buying, refining and delivering it to service station
Service station gets 41.46 p/l for selling it to you
Government gets 86.14 p/l in taxes
Many unknowns with the future cost of electricity already headed North. For people who would want to be recharging at commercial stations, again I am not yet sure that the cost has been fully factored.
Considering the cost of real estate having a car taking up this valuable commodity for an hour or two won’t be cheap either. Just parking a car in the city costs around $7 per hour.
And then again there are the capital costs of setting up stations and as always there has to be a profit margin built in. And lastly it gives governments an ideal way to tax electric vehicles for the petrol excise they would miss out on.
Considering the cost of real estate having a car taking up this valuable commodity for an hour or two won’t be cheap either. Just parking a car in the city costs around $7 per hour.
And then again there are the capital costs of setting up stations and as always there has to be a profit margin built in. And lastly it gives governments an ideal way to tax electric vehicles for the petrol excise they would miss out on.
https://www.climate.gov/news-featur...-carbon-dioxide-volcanoes-or-human-activities
The increase in destructive mining will be quite negligible, The tiny greenbushes mine in WA produces about a third of world demand at present. If every country changed to EV it would probably require less than a few million tonnes per year. That is not much volume of mine when spread over many countries. And recycling has already begun.
My 7 Kw home air conditioner uses about 70 KwH of power overnight, an average EV uses about 75 KwH to charge overnight, so more like a single air conditioners (not 20, but that is still a lot per household multiplied by many households). Some estimates claim Australia would require 3 times its present electricity consumption if we all had EVs, and much of the extra would be overnight when the sun doesn't shine. I think this is a major factor not being mentioned. How do you triple the country's power consumption at the same time as becoming carbon neutral?
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The diesel and petrol is the lesser of the 2 evils, It's the cost of Natural Gas / Propane which is hurting the people, At the moment it is between 6 and 8*c and people can't afford heating, And it is -7*c up North and it hasn't even started to get cold yet, and It is BP and Shell and a few other who the North Sea Gas Rigs so the people have to pay what ever they say with not competition,
People over here haven't got a clue about making a backup plan so a lot of them are going to die as they did during the Beast from the East Storm, and last Winter people were without power for 4 or 5 weeks
And Today Interest rates have now reach the highest rates since records began,
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If a person had enough space in the yard they could charge their car with solar if their daily commute is faily short where they could get a week of traveling to and from work and charge it on the weekend, but I can't see it working for people who travel 20 ks+ each way to and from work.
