Living with Electric Vehicles

[EVIE/BEE]

Which powertrain are you talking about? Electric vehicles don't need clutches, gears/transmissions, driveshafts and differentials.

By powertrain i meant the motor itself.
All you hear about is BATTERIES, how about the motor?
I would be happy to drive from Sydney to Perth at 70kph if i could get 1000ks before charging. That's only 3 charges maybe 1hr each.

The truck drivers would be driving over the top of me if i drove at 70ks across there.

 

[EVIE/BEE]

Saw something on the TV the other day about electric vehicles. The car was driven from Brissie to Cairns which is about 1,700 klm. It had 8 charges which took a total of 5 hours and the cost was about $60.00. At one charging station there were two points but only one was working and at another non were working so they asked motel owner if they could use there's. The problem as I see it is once again Australia has gone off halfcocked and not provided the infrastructure first before the cars. Same as housing no public transport, shops, medical facilities etc yet they put in thousands of houses first.

I only saw one charger at Kalgoorlie outside the council building.
Probably for the CEO.

 

[user 22230]

By powertrain i meant the motor itself.
All you hear about is BATTERIES, how about the motor?
I would be happy to drive from Sydney to Perth at 70kph if i could get 1000ks before charging. That's only 3 charges maybe 1hr each.

The truck drivers would be driving over the top of me if i drove at 70ks across there.

Probably only so much one can do with ohms law Probably need to concentrate on getting mass of vehicle - wind drag etc as low as possible which reduces the work the motor needs to do thus extending battery life / distance. But then you only need to put a few extra bums on seats and all that goes out the window in any case.

 

[EVIE/BEE]

Probably only so much one can do with ohms law Probably need to concentrate on getting mass of vehicle - wind drag etc as low as possible which reduces the work the motor needs to do thus extending battery life / distance. But then you only need to put a few extra bums on seats and all that goes out the window in any case.

The emphasis has been on power and speed.
If the motors were smaller and governed to go at 70kph for city driving.... what would happen???

 

[user 22230]

The emphasis has been on power and speed.
If the motors were smaller and governed to go at 70kph for city driving.... what would happen???

Comes back to weight as Mass is really what governs the minimum size of the motor needed? It's the accelerating the mass from rest that takes the power , power use in cruise minimal. So to small what would happen ? It wouldn't move

 

[user 4386]

Saw something on the TV the other day about electric vehicles. The car was driven from Brissie to Cairns which is about 1,700 klm. It had 8 charges which took a total of 5 hours and the cost was about $60.00. At one charging station there were two points but only one was working and at another non were working so they asked motel owner if they could use there's. The problem as I see it is once again Australia has gone off halfcocked and not provided the infrastructure first before the cars. Same as housing no public transport, shops, medical facilities etc yet they put in thousands of houses first.

Exactly! But of course the real cost is not $60 if you allow for battery replacement. And who wants to watch grass grow on a trip.
I think a lot of people miss the point that the reason the initial cost is so high is that you are also buying a battery with probably less than 10 year life, which is warrantied to only have 70% charge after 7 or 8 years. Which must then be replaced.

Like buying a car with a horrendously expensive, continually shrinking fuel tank that will require replacing at great cost before you can sell or continue driving (on average we keep our petrol cars beyond 10 years).. Not for me with present technology, except perhaps as a runabout for local shopping. Dramatic changes in technology are required for Australia (but I am optimistic that they will come with time).

If it were registered in Victoria you would pay another $34 in road tax, despite driving in Queensland (I think).

 

[EVIE/BEE]

Exactly! But of course the real cost is not $60 if you allow for battery replacement. And who wants to watch grass grow on a trip.
I think a lot of people miss the point that the reason the initial cost is so high is that you are also buying a battery with probably less than 10 year life, which is warrantied to only have 70% charge after 7 or 8 years. Which must then be replaced.

Like buying a car with a horrendously expensive, continually shrinking fuel tank that will require replacing at great cost before you can sell or continue driving (on average we keep our petrol cars beyond 10 years).. Not for me with present technology, except perhaps as a runabout for local shopping. Dramatic changes in technology are required for Australia (but I am optimistic that they will come with time).

If it were registered in Victoria you would pay another $34 in road tax, despite driving in Queensland (I think).

Putting the cart before the horse again.

 

[user 4386]

I only saw one charger at Kalgoorlie outside the council building.
Probably for the CEO.

There are 3 stations along the main drag in Kalgoorlie with a total of 6 plugs. Still a long way to go, but given how few EVs there are on Australia's roads and the fact that they mostly only driven locally in cities, it is hardly surprising.

 

[Moneybox]

No doubt still to be proven in practice but it does say "The company will be shipping material later this year, firstly to aerospace customers, as part of the qualification stage, then aircraft, air taxis, drones, mobile phones and laptops, before servicing the electric flight and automotive sectors in 2024". So they are manufacturing already.

It seems inevitable that battery improvement will come (range and lower price) and something like this could change my mind. We'll see.

Not sure I would want to test an electric plane before a car though.....

If you first test the electric plane you might not need to test the car.....? I'm sure there's a potential saving in there somewhere

 

[Grey Panner]

Exactly! But of course the real cost is not $60 if you allow for battery replacement. And who wants to watch grass grow on a trip.
I think a lot of people miss the point that the reason the initial cost is so high is that you are also buying a battery with probably less than 10 year life, which is warrantied to only have 70% charge after 7 or 8 years. Which must then be replaced.

Like buying a car with a horrendously expensive, continually shrinking fuel tank that will require replacing at great cost before you can sell or continue driving (on average we keep our petrol cars beyond 10 years).. Not for me with present technology, except perhaps as a runabout for local shopping. Dramatic changes in technology are required for Australia (but I am optimistic that they will come with time).

If it were registered in Victoria you would pay another $34 in road tax, despite driving in Queensland (I think).

The time spent on battery charging could prove to be the main reason why people are reluctant to convert to electric cars.
Way back in the thirties the Stanley Steamer was a magnificent vehicle. Reasonably cheap to run, a good top speed and excellent acceleration. Its problem was it took three minutes to warm up before it could be driven, The fledgling petrol driven cars could be started and driven off in seconds. End of the Stanley Steamer and end of story.

 

[grubstake]

https://thedriven.io/2023/02/21/att...m-perth-to-sydney-and-back-in-a-byd-electric/

 

[user 4386]

The time spent on battery charging could prove to be the main reason why people are reluctant to convert to electric cars.
Way back in the thirties the Stanley Steamer was a magnificent vehicle. Reasonably cheap to run, a good top speed and excellent acceleration. Its problem was it took three minutes to warm up before it could be driven, The fledgling petrol driven cars could be started and driven off in seconds. End of the Stanley Steamer and end of story.

They were manufactured for 28 years. The startup time was ultimately a killer, and petrol (only slightly more expensive than water in those days) took over. They ultimately solved the start-up time with a quick-firing boiler, but by then petrol had stolen the market.

"Producer gas" cars running on carbon monoxide produced from steam and coal were also used. Highly toxic. About 130 km per charge of coal.

 

[user 4386]

https://thedriven.io/2023/02/21/att...m-perth-to-sydney-and-back-in-a-byd-electric/

I think the key takeaways are
"I received a lot of wise advice from people in the Tesla community who have travelled this route before.....Ant in particular, from Australian Electric Vehicle Association WA (AEVA WA), was really helpful in assisting me to test a variety of Tesla charging cables and configurations to see if they worked on an Atto 3 and Harald kindly came to my home to set up and teach me how to operate the in-boot DC converter prior to my trip."
"It ended up being 23 charging stops on the way over and 20 on the way back thanks to the great charging infrastructure across northern NSW. I was unable to go this route on the way east as the fast charger in Wilcannia was out of action, thankfully repaired by my return journey west."
"Challenges included some seriously wild weather between Esperance and Madura Roadhouse on Day 2, resulting in very wet roads and headwinds. The combination of these, plus the bow-waves from passing trucks made my range deplete much faster than predicted, leaving me questioning in the middle of the Nullarbor whether I would actually make it to my next charging location. No back up wall plugs out there!"
"It was pretty hairy for a while, with the thunder and lightning and no mobile signal! Unlike Tesla, the Atto 3 doesn’t have real-time trip data with remaining range display, the displayed range is estimated only, so it’s left to some maths and a whole lot of guesswork to determine if the charge is sufficient for the remaining distance. I dropped my speed right back to 75km/hour to conserve range and as soon as I had mobile signal again was very relieved to speak with my partner back in Perth, who helped calculate what remaining SoC % I would need at 10km intervals to ensure I would make it (thank you, very grateful!). This meant I could adjust my speed accordingly – travelling slower if I was using too much power and I could accelerate if I was over target".

Can't wait to do it - what fun, 23 charges at a minimum of 2.5 hours each (about 6x10 hour days), 75 km/hr, and all that enjoyable tension of perhaps being stranded on the Nullarbor with no way to get an emergency fill!

But I guess the early explorers had it a bit harder preparing and doing it with camels....

 

[EVIE/BEE]

https://thedriven.io/2023/02/21/att...m-perth-to-sydney-and-back-in-a-byd-electric/

A great trip and a cry for more infrastructure. Most of those stops have diesel generators as a power source.
In the future where's the power going to come from. If not coal or gas or nuclear?

Over 20 charge ups in each direction.

 

[user 4386]

A great trip and a cry for more infrastructure. Most of those stops have diesel generators as a power source.
In the future where's the power going to come from. If not coal or gas or nuclear?

Probably solar or wind charging large and expensive storage batteries. But given the infrastructure cost, it will not be cheap electricity. Imagine the setup required for somewhere like the Nullarbor roadhouse if everyone coming through was using an EV, even the trucks. And they would have to be very close together - this was a light car.

Amazed that the ACT has announced "EV cars only" for the future. What happens with petrol cars visiting the ACT? What happens if you move to the ACT with your petrol car? Will they charge you road tax on every km driven outside the territory as Victoria does now, regardless of your type of car? Victoria shows you the stupidity of charging ahead without thought (I immediately abandoned the idea of getting a hybrid). To me the push for all EV in Australia is moronic - just let the market evolution take its course. Many will buy little city EVs if that is all they drive or if they have 2 cars (as most households do). We do not have to be forced.

 

[Jaros]

Great write up on your; re post. It's a long time between G'days hey? Still have to keep the drivers mind.

 

[user 4386]

And what no one discusses is that Australia would need to generate 2 to 3 times our present electricity generation if all vehicles were EVs, at a time when we are trying to go carbon neutral! Is anyone doing sums?

 

[Jaros]

I'm hoping to get 20yrs more out of the life of the Pathy.

 

[grubstake]

Probably solar charging large and expensive storage batteries. But given the infrastructure cost, it will not be cheap electricity.

That's not an apples with apples economic comparison. The infrastructure cost of producing liquid fuels (overseas), shipping, transporting and providing them at such remote locations must be colossal, not to mention the fuel consumed and pollution created in that lengthy process. Alongside which, the fixed costs of installing solar panels and batteries seem pretty trivial.

As a bonus, Australia doesn't have to keep buying those endless rivers of fuel and being vulnerable to any interruptions to supply. Once the solar installation is in place, it pretty much takes care of itself and the setup cost will be soon recovered by motorists paying for recharges.

 

[EVIE/BEE]

That's not an apples with apples economic comparison. The infrastructure cost of producing liquid fuels (overseas), shipping, transporting and providing them at such remote locations must be colossal, not to mention the fuel consumed and pollution created in that lengthy process. Alongside which, the fixed costs of installing solar panels and batteries seem pretty trivial.

As a bonus, Australia doesn't have to keep buying those endless rivers of fuel and being vulnerable to any interruptions to supply. Once the solar installation is in place, it pretty much takes care of itself and the setup cost will be soon recovered by motorists paying for recharges.

I have no faith in storage batteries grubstake.
Batteries go flat then have to be recharged over and over again.