Improving the level of education on bushfire prep and survivability

[nucopia]

You may be right BW
But that should not stop authorities from doing every thing possible to prevent fires.
What has happend over the last 20 year is that we have had numerous fires some with major loss of life and property followed by parlamentary inquireies and A royal commission. Each of those inquiries released their findings and recommendations, much of which has been disregarded and or ignored and
mostly to appease the green mentality within government departments councils and the community.
Some things are beyond our control but many things we can do we are not doing and that is the issue.

Another issue is that we have people deliberatly starting fires
Possibly 200 + so fare

 

[nucopia]

Here is a press release from the Volunteer Fire Fighters Association

https://volunteerfirefighters.org.a...khVThwL3ncZJINZEvTwDBG5KLCiLgy5VconCZWyYK9V_s

 

[RM Outback]

Unfortunately, back burning generally doesn't help with high wind speed crowning fires, as they are just intended to remove surface fuel loads.
Great for days with low wind conditions, but for what was seen recently, nothing would stop those crowning fires except massive clearings, lakes and oceans.
Yes fuel reduction will reduce the chances of spot fires starting, but even those that require huge areas of burning.
When younger, I would stay and defend my home during a ground fire with 20k litre water tanks and a large Davey fire pump with 2 branches each with 50m of lay flat, but with high winds and crowning expected, I wouldn't stand a chance and our family/pets would be long gone.
Now, I'm just packed and ready to leave.
PS: I spent ~3 years as a volunteer in the Mt Lofty Ranges (Aldgate CFS), and was qualified with Drger equipment for structural fires. That time gave me a healthy respect for bush and structural fires, but not nearly with the intensity we've been seeing. Holy shite!!!

That's the sum of it BigWave :Y: crowning fires with high winds and low humidity are an uncontrollable beast that sees fate as the only reason people animals and structures are spared. The best prepard dwellings are just as vulnerable as those that aren't in these fires. Well prepared homes are defendable in a grass fire situation where ill prepared homes are more vulnerable. Some grass/ scrub fires do create a lot of heat but nowhere near what these current fire storms are. The heroes of these fires and past given a choice wouldn't put themselves in danger. It's their selfless action that makes them heroes and I doubt anyone of these fine people would sit well with their name labelled as a hero, but they truly are. :beer:

 

[nucopia]

Radio interview with a 52 year veteran of NSW RFS

https://www.2gb.com/podcast/must-listen-call-from-50-year-firefighting-veteran/

 

[mbasko]

There have been a couple of parliamentary inquiries over the last 20 years
A federal parliamentary inquiry into bushfires in 2003
A Vic parlimantary inquiery in 2007 and a bush fire royal commission in 2009.
Most of the recommendations coming out of those inqueries have been haphazadly Implamented or been ignored.

An article in the SMH from 2009
https://amp.smh.com.au/environment/...-20090211-84mk.html?__twitter_impression=true

July 2007 Scott Gentle, the Victorian manager of Timber Communities Australia, complained of obstruction from green local government authorities of any type of fire mitigation strategies. He told of green interference at Kinglake - at the epicentre of Saturday's disaster, where at least 147 people died - during a smaller fire there in 2007.

"The contractors were out working on the fire lines. They put in containment lines and cleared off some of the fire trails. Two weeks later that fire broke out, but unfortunately those trails had been blocked up again [by greens] to turn it back to its natural state Instances like that are just too numerous to mention. Governments have been in too much of a rush to appease green idealism This thing about locking up forests is just not working."
10 years later the same cycle repeats its self - increased fuel loads and green interference and obstruction.

Afticle from Sept 2019
Our crews ignited the burn near Mossiface and then had to call 000 to activate Victoria Police when, contrary to Authorised Officers advice members of the public entered the burn zone and refused to leave.

This is reckless and irresponsible behaviour that puts their own lives and the lives of our firefighters and the community at risk in addition to tying up valuable police resources.

https://www.trfm.com.au/articles/planned-burns-halted/

ABC report on actavists protesting hazzard reduction burns in Gippsland Sept 2019

https://www.prospectingaustralia.co...9493_75963b02-b445-477c-83b3-e6e9a92c5bae.jpg

https://www.prospectingaustralia.co...0456_7eada11b-2fe6-49ac-a328-c729974c9b36.jpg

Bushfire Royal Commissions go back to the 1930's.
1927 Royal Commission of Inquiry on Bush Fires in the State of New South Wales J.B. Cramsie, F. Jackson and N.W. Jolly

Stretton, Leonard Edward Bishop (1939).Report of the Royal Commission to Inquire into the Causes of and Measures Taken to Prevent the Bush Fires of January, 1939, and to Protect Life and Property, and the Measures Taken to Prevent Bush Fires in Victoria and Protect Life and Property in the Event of Future Bush Fires. Parliament of Victoria: T. Rider, Acting Government Printer.

Not much has changed:
The NSW 1927 Royal Commission mainly centred around the use of wax matches & on locomotive engines but peoples carelessness & lack of preparation was a common theme from those who gave evidence + recommendations. Common recommendations - fire breaks & burning off.
Unsurprisingly:
"Stretton's recommendations officially sanctioned & encouraged the common bush practice of controlled burning to minimise future risks."

"Prior to 13 January 1939, many fires were already burning. Some of the fires started as early as December 1938, but most of them started in the first week of January 1939. Some of these fires could not be extinguished. Others were left unattended or, as Judge Stretton wrote, the fires were allowed to burn "under control", as it was falsely and dangerously called. Most of the fires, Stretton declared, with almost biblical gravity, were lit by the "hand of man"."


We'll likely never fully mitigate bushfire risk in Australia but we need to get back to allowing the reduction of risk to as low as possible:
Fined for "Illegal" clearing
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sm...family-now-feel-vindicated-20090212-85bd.html

 

[LONEWOLF]

I saw on the news last night a piece of Melted Aluminium... That melts at 900deg... Nothing will survive those Temps... Firefighters have no chance to defend homes or Homeowners wearing thongs, shorts and singlets at those temps... Even your fire pumps would stop at say 400deg...

LW...

 

[mbasko]

Radio interview with a 52 year veteran of NSW RFS

https://www.2gb.com/podcast/must-listen-call-from-50-year-firefighting-veteran/

No BS there just hard facts - too hard for a lot to digest!
Time to listen to these front line people.

 

[CreviceSucker]

I saw on the news last night a piece of Melted Aluminium... That melts at 900deg... Nothing will survive those Temps... Firefighters have no chance to defend homes or Homeowners wearing thongs, shorts and singlets at those temps... Even your fire pumps would stop at say 400deg...

LW...

Aluminium melts at 660 Celsius.

Petrol will convert to volatile vapour at around 63 celcius so if you have a petrol pump you need to keep it cool with wetted or insulated covering or it may cease working due to fuel vapourlock.

Diesel pumps are much better , they may cope with up to 95.6 celcius.

During an ember attack anyone attempting to refill the tank on a petrol pump will become an inferno

 

[CreviceSucker]

I just watched an interview with a dairy farmer from Mossiface.

He said the radiant heat was causing eucalyptus oil to vapourise above the trees before flame even got to it and the vapour was igniting instantaneously above the trees and exploding forwards as fireballs hundreds of metres wide.

I reckon we dont need an official inquiry into these bushfires , all they have to do is get the inquiries from previous bushfires where the recommendations were largely ignored and apply them / ignore them too

Here is a photo he took at the property . Whats that face on the right ?

 

[savage bitter]

One big problem I see is attachment to their property and possessions a lot of common sense goes out the window and what I have seen first hand you cant reason with them and a lot of the time they are hurt or dead its sad but in their head they are doing what they can to try and save their things.

 

[Ded Driver]

I have seen that phenomenon where the fire front roars through the tree tops as the oil vapour ignites over the trees.
It can be truly terrifying

 

[savage bitter]

I just watched an interview with a dairy farmer from Mossiface.

He said the radiant heat was causing eucalyptus oil to vapourise above the trees before flame even got to it and the vapour was igniting instantaneously above the trees and exploding forwards as fireballs hundreds of metres wide.

I reckon we dont need an official inquiry into these bushfires , all they have to do is get the inquiries from previous bushfires where the recommendations were largely ignored and apply them / ignore them too

Here is a photo he took at the property . Whats that face on the right ?

https://www.prospectingaustralia.co...0257_47167ec4-d72c-4417-8ae2-af466ed67ed0.jpg

I am a pretty tough man as such if I saw that coming I would be very scared and s&%ting myself you can not win against that coming

 

[mbasko]

Lack of resources, lack of preparation, lack of front line leadership, years of mismanagement.
Local news last week or so:

 

[sand surfer]

To true mbasko things have to change

 

[CreviceSucker]

I just watched an interview with a dairy farmer from Mossiface.

He said the radiant heat was causing eucalyptus oil to vapourise above the trees before flame even got to it and the vapour was igniting instantaneously above the trees and exploding forwards as fireballs hundreds of metres wide.

I reckon we dont need an official inquiry into these bushfires , all they have to do is get the inquiries from previous bushfires where the recommendations were largely ignored and apply them / ignore them too

Here is a photo he took at the property . Whats that face on the right ?

https://www.prospectingaustralia.co...0257_47167ec4-d72c-4417-8ae2-af466ed67ed0.jpg

I am a pretty tough man as such if I saw that coming I would be very scared and s&%ting myself you can not win against that coming

Fireballs as described could be a couple of thousand degrees celcius . Not too many firies have the type of equipment used in foundries by the guys tending the blast furnaces but I would feel unsure if even those would be enough.

 

[Bjay]

In these times I keep on remembering what a mate told me. Was around 15 years ago and him and his crew got burnt over in there truck. Every time he brings it up he just breaks down( so do I). He actually got time to ring his wife before it happened and told her that he didnt think he was coming home. Please leave if you can so others dont have to be put in the situation of trying to save people that should have left. Remember its not just your lives but others that are trying to save yours.

 

[LONEWOLF]

I saw on the news last night a piece of Melted Aluminium... That melts at 900deg... Nothing will survive those Temps... Firefighters have no chance to defend homes or Homeowners wearing thongs, shorts and singlets at those temps... Even your fire pumps would stop at say 400deg...

LW...

Aluminium melts at 660 Celsius.

Petrol will convert to volatile vapour at around 63 celcius so if you have a petrol pump you need to keep it cool with wetted or insulated covering or it may cease working due to fuel vapourlock.

Diesel pumps are much better , they may cope with up to 95.6 celcius.

During an ember attack anyone attempting to refill the tank on a petrol pump will become an inferno

Opps my bad... :|

That Face is the Face of Evil.. :skull:

LW...

 

[shakergt]

Will something come out of these fires? I do not know but I hope so. I have a fair bit of experience when it comes to bushfires. I have seen trees explode as the oils get sucked out of them. I have had fires go over the top of me and I have even been trapped behind the fire front. In all my years of fighting fires the main thing I have lernt is that preparation is the best answer. It works but the problem is way to many people are to lazy to be prepared.

However we seem to be learning. The BAL building standard is a huge step forward. Here in the west local councils in bush fire prone areas are mapping bushfire risks and putting in place bushfire risk plans and mitigation strategies.

 

[CreviceSucker]

Will something come out of these fires? I do not know but I hope so. I have a fair bit of experience when it comes to bushfires. I have seen trees explode as the oils get sucked out of them. I have had fires go over the top of me and I have even been trapped behind the fire front. In all my years of fighting fires the main thing I have lernt is that preparation is the best answer. It works but the problem is way to many people are to lazy to be prepared.

However we seem to be learning. The BAL building standard is a huge step forward. Here in the west local councils in bush fire prone areas are mapping bushfire risks and putting in place bushfire risk plans and mitigation strategies.

Hopefully they dont just go kneejerk response and change zoning to forbid a Dwelling ever being built in those areas at all.

It needs to be rezoning that requires compliance to BAL-40 and flame zone.

The materials and methods exist now , ready for architects and engineers to implement them.