Even Small Lithium Batteries Work,

[Ridge Runner]

Back in January 2020 I bought the Camper Conversion for my Van and One thing I was impressed with was that it came with a Small Lithium Power Station, When it was fitted I was told that it was 50% Charged, That was 17 months ago and It's been bugging me that I had not used it or ever ever charged it, Today I went out there to Charge it and it is still showing 50% Charged, In comparison I have had to Charge my 80Ah AGMs every 3 to 4 weeks for the past 17 months and that takes up to 10 or 12 hours each time they are put on charge,

It's only small and made to run up to 4 LED Lights as well as for charging a phone or a Tablet or plugging a 12v Fan in to and it came with a 3.3A 240v Charger and a little 5w Solar panel which ain't much but it's enough when ya in a jam.

My 40Ah Dometic Lithium packs are in a class of their own when it comes to running Toys and fridges and they charge from dead flat to 100% in around 4.5 hours, And having a pair of them is a game changer being rated @ 80% DOC giving up to 2000 cycles or at 50% giving over 8000 cycles,

The fact you can leave them for so long without charging and the speed they charge at leaves everything else in the shade.

 

[brendomac]

Do you know if the lithiums charge just as well using solar panels? I'm thinking that you are out in the bush for a few days, let's say autumn and you have a standard 150w solar panel and the weather is nice and clear.

Do you reckon the lithium would charge up the same, slower or faster than an AGM?

I think the cost difference is still not as big as it used to be, but the AGM's are still cheaper.

 

[Jaros]

They are great value aren't they.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Do you know if the lithiums charge just as well using solar panels? I'm thinking that you are out in the bush for a few days, let's say autumn and you have a standard 150w solar panel and the weather is nice and clear.

Do you reckon the lithium would charge up the same, slower or faster than an AGM?

I think the cost difference is still not as big as it used to be, but the AGM's are still cheaper.

First off I would be using 2 X 80w/120w Panels so I could wire them in series for cloudy days then I would always have maximum Voltage/Amps So on cloudy days I can use 2 and on bright sunny days I only need One. My Lithium Packs charge way way faster than AGM batteries. And they only other Batteries that can charge as fast are Lead Crystal which are Awesome but they don't fit them in power packs because they are as heavy as an AGM. But they are Good if fitted in to a Vehicle, But I went with the PLB's because I wanted a 100% portable setup that is ultra light.

My 40Ah Dometic packs fully charge in 4.5 to 4.6 hours which is 4hr 36mins and it does not matter if I use a 120w panel or the AC Charger that come with it or If I plug it in to the Vans Cigar Socket using the Supplied Cigar to Large 50A Anderson Plugged Lead,

You can use 2 panels in series so if it is a cloudy day you still get full power and it will charge in the same amount of time as it would with a 120w panel in full On sunlight,,

If the fridge uses 20% of the power over night the the PLB-40 will be fully charged up within an hour to an hour and 15 minutes and it can be charged by the Cigar socket in the same amount of time, It Charges at around 17 to 18% per hour, I Just ran my 47L ARB from it for over 26 hours and it used about 38 or 40% of the power and in 2 hours 3 minutes it was fully charged back up to 100% and had stopped charging,

Doing the maths If you use an AGM down to 50% the PLB 40 is equal to about 180Ah AGM battery because I can charge it 3 X compared what it takes to Charge an 80Ah AGM which at 50% DOC Takes between 10 to 12 hours using a 26A Smart charger by the time it has done it's 7 steps and then goes in to equalize mode. A 40Ah AGM at 50% is 40Ah If I run the little PLB 40 down to its saftey level which is 80% thats 32Ah, I can run it lower but whats the point,

The speed these Lithium packs charge at is just like charging your Phone,

If a person wants/needs even more power I would be buying 2 X 500w+ versions instead of buying one of the larger 1000/1500w+ versions because they take between 7.5 /9.5 and 12 hours to Charge and nearly all of the bigger ones can't be charged from a Vehicles 12v Socket so thats one less charging option.

The Dometic PLB-40's are 512w So I have a total of 1024Wh to use and they have a 15A 12v cigar socket where as all the rest have a 8 and 10A socket. Having that 15A outlet it will run most 12v items.

 

[brendomac]

Wow, thanks Ridge. That's some good information. There a few other 12v threads running through the forum and it certainly is a rabbit hole of what you can do with your setup.

All-in-all, the lithium sounds great. I have heard it elsewhere but was really interested to see how they handle a normal camping situation. And from what you are saying, sounds like they are great.

I appreciate the info!

 

[Upside]

I suppose it's the tradesman in me but where lithium batteries are heading it's very exciting!

Saw a battery powered high pressure water gun for the 1st time. You connect your garden hose to the cordless handle, battery connects to the handle and off you go! No more long leads and the unit falling over amongst other things. Karcher and Guerney are gonna have to lift their game! :Y:

 

[condor22]

Lithium will charge at approximately the same time as an AGM. Ooops I should qualify that, lol.

1. Lithium can be charged at a higher amp rate than an AGM, true.

2. However, if you have a solar panel i.e. 100 W that for arguments sake outputs 5 amps (rounded figures as an example) with let's say 4 sun hours for the day. And again to keep it simple this = 20 Amps of charge. If your battery, Lithium or AGM is a 100 AH and is at 75% capacity, it will need at least 25 amps of charge to fill. Then the lithium will charge at a similar rate to the AGM until the AGM nears full, when the controller will slow down the output. etc etc you get my drift.

Where the big difference is when charging is from a 240 VAC charger. i.e. mine is a 30 A and for the size AGM I have it is set to a maximum of 21 amps boost charge. Whereas if my battery is lithium I can put the whole 30 amps in and if I had a bigger charger more again. This is then much quicker than an aGM

In other words if your solar panel has a maximum output much less than what might be from a mains charger, there's little difference in charge speed. Bit like a bucket being filled with water, with the tap turned on half way, regardless of the bucket shape and size, the same amount of water goes in and the only way to increase that amount over time is to turn the tap to a higher output.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Charging Lithium Vs AGM can not be compared

A 40Ah Lithium pack takes 4.6 hours to recharge, Using the factory supplied 8A 240v Charger @ 20% SOC = 32A used accepting 6.95A per hour

My 80Ah New AGM Exide Battery takes up to 12 hours using a 26A Smart Charger at an SOC of 65% = 28A used. accepting 2.33A per hour,

Comparing the Charge times using 9% more power from the Lithium Pack @ 32A Vs Replacing 28A used from the AGM Using a Smart Charger 3X more powerful than the Factory Charger supplied with the Lithium Pack,

So the Lithium pack is accepting 86.8% of the power supplied, Vs the AGM accepting 29.12% of the power supplied even though it is using a Charger 3 X more powerful.

Both AGM and Lithium are Great, But if you are winter Camping ect or have limited Sun Light Hours then Lithium are streets ahead because of their willingness to accept almost 87% of the power supplied Vs 29% that the AGM is accepting,

One of my fridges used 23% of the lithium pack while being used in the Van for 17-18 hours and I can replace that power used in around 1h 15/20 minutes, If i had kept the Lithium pack plugged in to the Cigar socket all day then the Pack would have stayed at 100%,

Size Matters

Beacuse Lithium are so willing to accept 87% of the power supplied I have found that I can get away with using a Battery/Pack up to 3 X Smaller and ligher giving me more space and and less weight GVM,

One 40Ah Lithium Pack weighs 7.8kg Vs 80Ah AGM = 22.9kg = A saving of 15.1kgs,

I was going to use 2 or 3 115Ah Deep Cycle Batteries weighing In At 24.3 Kgs Each thats 72.9kgs Vs 2 X 7.8=15.6kg = a Saving of 57.3kg. and the fact that what the fridge will use during the hours of darkness can be replaced with less than ONE hour from a 120w Solar Panel is a No Brainer and I don't need a single piece of fancy wiring or DC-DC Chargers or a Charge Controller and it is 100% Portable and it is as simple as plugging in your Mobile Phone. and I get from 2000 to 8000+ cycles to play with.

Having Two 500+Wh Lithium packs gives me extra power if needed and if one fails I have one to fail back on.

 

[Tathradj]

Are you sure of that RR. layful:

 

[Ridge Runner]

Are you sure of that RR. layful:

No, LOLOLOL,

I have just hooked up the fridge (47L) to the New AGM and I am going to run the test again, It's 28*c here so I reckon it's a fair test and the fridge will draw similar Ah/Wh as it would back home,

I weighed all 3 battery types on Digital Bathroom Scales that measure down to 0.1kg so I think they go low enough to be a guide of the weights,

It's awesome how these packs have simplified my Camping Power, So much so I have drained the fuel tank on the New genny and put it back in the Box because I just don't need it for camping unless I want to run high draw items and the space I saved in the Van I can store one of the compressors and Food and a Gas Heater etc.

If a person has an On board system in a Camper or Caravan then 1 or 2 Normal 60Ah Lithium Batteries would be the go because at a DOD of 80% you will still have 48/96Ah to use and still save around 30kgs in weight over 2 X 100Ah AGM's @ 50% DOD and the Lithiums charge like a Rocket. IE 3 X faster with less power being wasted from the Solar.

For High Draw Campers 2 X 100Ah Lithiums will give you 160Ah+ of useable power @80% DOD and some brands can go even lower, To get the same amount of useable power from AGM's you are going to need over 320Ah in batteries weighing close to 120kgs + maybe more Vs 25 to 30kgs MAX.

I love em coz the Lithium Packs are as simple as charging your phone and they tell you all the info you need without extra wiring and meters or Apps etc :Y: :inlove: :inlove: :inlove:

 

[Tathradj]

I have installed lately,

4 x 55ah High Life Agm,s
1 x 160w Panel,
12 amp pwm controller,
Monitoring system,
Diesel heater,
4 ah 240v smart charger.

Batteries usually about $400.00 each.

Batteries cost me nothing so I expanded on them.

Have cabled it all in testing atm but
will build a panel to hold it all.
I am seriously thinking of installing another panel and
controller to pump enough juice into the batteries.

 

[Ridge Runner]

If I was going to buy more Lithium Packs I would be buying the PowerOak AC50s / Bluetti AC50's because it have a 300w Inverter that surges to around 600w but can supply a constant 400w of pure Sinewave of 240v power and it has some clever tricks and is a lot cheaper than most but it is made with high grade parts, My Brother bought this one and it is the best all rounder, And the AC50's has a 90% DOD which allows you to use even more power.

They do make 1000wh and 1500wh and 1800wh and a 2400wh versions but none of them can be charged from a 12v Cigar socket and take from 9.5 to 18hrs to charge unless you hook up 3 X 150w Panels in series which will take up a lot of space in the van, So 2 AC50's would be better than One 1000w version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUVlCecoy0Y

 

[Ridge Runner]

I have installed lately,

4 x 55ah High Life Agm,s
1 x 160w Panel,
12 amp pwm controller,
Monitoring system,
Diesel heater,
4 ah 240v smart charger.

Batteries usually about $400.00 each.

Batteries cost me nothing so I expanded on them.

Have cabled it all in testing atm but
will build a panel to hold it all.
I am seriously thinking of installing another panel and
controller to pump enough juice into the batteries.

Sounds Great, Why did you go with a PWM instead of a MPPT ? If you can squeeze another panel in you would use very little power during from the batteries if at all so the batteris would only have to supply power over night and be back up in the morning, :Y: erfect:

 

[Ridge Runner]

A 40Ah AGM at 50% is 40Ah If I run the little PLB 40 down to its saftey level which is 80% thats 32Ah, I can run it lower but whats the point,

EDIT EDIT EDIT:-

Sorry everyone this should read,,,, A 80Ah AGM @ 50% is 40Ah,

 

[Tathradj]

Just checked.
is an MPPT.

I have installed lately,

4 x 55ah High Life Agm,s
1 x 160w Panel,
12 amp pwm controller,
Monitoring system,
Diesel heater,
4 ah 240v smart charger.

Batteries usually about $400.00 each.

Batteries cost me nothing so I expanded on them.

Have cabled it all in testing atm but
will build a panel to hold it all.
I am seriously thinking of installing another panel and
controller to pump enough juice into the batteries.

Sounds Great, Why did you go with a PWM instead of a MPPT ? If you can squeeze another panel in you would use very little power during from the batteries if at all so the batteris would only have to supply power over night and be back up in the morning, :Y: erfect:

 

[Ridge Runner]

Just checked.
is an MPPT.

Well you have all the good gear so with another panel you will have enough for long term camping, :Y: :Y:

I have the 47L hooked up to the 80Ah AGM and I am also seeing how the 78L runs on the 40Ah Lithium pack set at -10*c hopefully the bigger compressor in it won't cain the Lithium pack too much, fingers crossed.