DEEP CYCLE BATTERIES and BUSH POWER

[Jaros]

In some places we are planting icypole sticks with choccy on it for desert.

 

[condor22]

I got the 2 x 150W in parallel connected to the van. The on roof was isolated and not in the mix (Carport) Their rated output is 8.33 amps each i.e. 16.6 total, but I noted the input on the PM300 BMS at just under 19 amps. I guess being new they may perform better, plus the possible effect of the MPPT controller set to lithium profile.

Temp was around 12C (like NJ said, bloody cold) clear sky but weak sun at around noon. On their own at that output they'll charge my daily use in less than 3 hours. Gotta be happy with that.

Will need to wait for the next trip to give them a real go and see if the on roof detracts or adds to the output.

 

[condor22]

Re the Pommie heatwave, I heard on our news channel that less than 3% of houses have air conditioners. Plus my own background, most houses are built to keep the heat in, not out.

I was over there in summer 93', what I saw was everyone opening up windows, which is actually not smart as that lets more heat in, lol.

RR you have the heat, and for the last few months we've had cold, rain and floods........

 

[Ridge Runner]

I got the 2 x 150W in parallel connected to the van. The on roof was isolated and not in the mix (Carport) Their rated output is 8.33 amps each i.e. 16.6 total, but I noted the input on the PM300 BMS at just under 19 amps. I guess being new they may perform better, plus the possible effect of the MPPT controller set to lithium profile.

Temp was around 12C (like NJ said, bloody cold) clear sky but weak sun at around noon. On their own at that output they'll charge my daily use in less than 3 hours. Gotta be happy with that.

Will need to wait for the next trip to give them a real go and see if the on roof detracts or adds to the output.

We have to put ours in series because it's the Watts we need with the Amps limited to around 10A but we can use 600w of panels because it is capped at just over 500, My Brother is using 2x 260w @ 24v in Series panels that returns between 300-505w due to the fluctuation of the sun light, These 2 24v panels hit the 60v limit from time to time, Where using big Lithium Batteries and an MPPT of your choosing you can use them in parallel

I prefer 12v panels because I can max out the Volts and the Watts where 200w 12v panels put out around 10A +/-, So where on a bad day a 120w panel might put out 4 to 12w, 3x 200w panels are going to give me 18 to 60w, Due to the erratic Sun Power over here I soon learned that you have to over Volt when it comes to Solar,

PowerOak / Bluetti SoGens need around 12v to 48v for the smaller models and the bigger ones need 16v to 60 / 64v, and although the Dometic PLB's are more expensive they only need from 8v to 25v +/- to charge so they are more forgiving where even on bad days they will charge Plus they have all the other stuff people want already built in, that Companies like Bluetti and Jackery etc etc have only just started to fit to their products,

Done right Lithium has made it possible for me to go away for weeks using just a single 512wh/40Ah SoGen running a fridge,TV and a Tablet PC and charging phones, where I struggled using 2x 115Ah batteries.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Re the Pommie heatwave, I heard on our news channel that less than 3% of houses have air conditioners. Plus my own background, most houses are built to keep the heat in, not out.

I was over there in summer 93', what I saw was everyone opening up windows, which is actually not smart as that lets more heat in, lol.

RR you have the heat, and for the last few months we've had cold, rain and floods........

I've never seen Aircon in a home over here and with the massive price rise in electricity costs over here, I never will see one, Where some people will be paying £4800.00 a year for electricity which $8208.00 AUD and its going up again soon.

It's cooled down a bit, It's only 25* today, Back up to 28+ on wednesday and 21* and Rain for Thursday and 24*+for friday and then it's meant to get a bit warmer next week.

 

[condor22]

I'm currently paying AUD $0.366 / kWh for power at peak times and under $0.20 off peak. My annual bill is just under AUD $2,000 p.a. and we think we pay too much lol.

Re series/parallel. My next venture out (who knows when, lol) I'll deploy the panels for a few days in parallel without the roof panel in the mix, to check portable panel output. Before connecting to the van in series with the 50V limit on the PM300, I'll check the open circuit voltage from the 2 panels. The rated Voc is 21.24 so it should be ok with the 300s 50V limit. If ok I then want to see if there is a significant difference to a parallel connection.

I think there might be an improvement as the start charge trigger voltage will occur earlier in the day and later in the afternoon. The output will be reduced at these times, but even a smaller charge earlier is better than no charge.

The only aspect that I'm interested in, is replacing what I use........

 

[condor22]

Spent an hour checking the Hardkorr panels this arvo, in parallel, time around 3pm, a lot of cloud, with occasional sun.

When the sun was behind heavy cloud the output hovered between 5-6 amps.
When the cloud was less but still covering the sun output was 10-11 amps.
When the sun was out I noted 15.2 amps

Given the rating of 8.33 for 16.66 in parallel 15.2 at this time of year and time of day is as good as I would expect output to be. Most days I'll get full charge to the batteries. But on heavy overcast rainy days I might get around half of my use replaced, which from lithium will give about a week before I need to find another charge method. It's very rare to get crappy weather for that long in VIC and SA.

Should add, the SOC of the batteries was 91% (200Ah) and only one LED light bank of 3 lights as load.

 

[Nightjar]

I'm currently paying AUD $0.366 / kWh for power at peak times and under $0.20 off peak. My annual bill is just under AUD $2,000 p.a. and we think we pay too much lol.

Re series/parallel. My next venture out (who knows when, lol) I'll deploy the panels for a few days in parallel without the roof panel in the mix, to check portable panel output. Before connecting to the van in series with the 50V limit on the PM300, I'll check the open circuit voltage from the 2 panels. The rated Voc is 21.24 so it should be ok with the 300s 50V limit. If ok I then want to see if there is a significant difference to a parallel connection.

I think there might be an improvement as the start charge trigger voltage will occur earlier in the day and later in the afternoon. The output will be reduced at these times, but even a smaller charge earlier is better than no charge.

The only aspect that I'm interested in, is replacing what I use........

Condor,
You mention $2000p.a. for your power you obviously have more using power in your home? There are just the two of us in our home and our last bill was $191 equating to $1146 p.a.
Have 10 panels on the roof but no battery, have no idea how it all works or if we get any credits or what ever. The solar panel has a digital device plugged into it but have never learned how it works.

 

[condor22]

NJ, we don't have solar on the roof, at our age, can't see it paying for itself. We are 2 people, however, my wife has a medical condition that requires additional heating in winter and more so, cooling in summer. So, our aircons get a work out. We pay monthly and the last bill was $172 for 15.6kWh average per day, which is the $2k p.a. approximation. However, we get a State govt concession payment of $415 p.a. plus a medical heating and cooling concession for the wife of around $200 p.a. not counting around $10 each p.f. energy sup in the pension. So, around 60% of our bill is covered. I'm not gonna complain lol.... An out of pocket of approx $60 per month is not huge. She's home all of the time and I'm only away when I go digging holes.

You say "last bill was $191", but not how long for?

 

[Ridge Runner]

Spent an hour checking the Hardkorr panels this arvo, in parallel, time around 3pm, a lot of cloud, with occasional sun.

When the sun was behind heavy cloud the output hovered between 5-6 amps.
When the cloud was less but still covering the sun output was 10-11 amps.
When the sun was out I noted 15.2 amps

Given the rating of 8.33 for 16.66 in parallel 15.2 at this time of year and time of day is as good as I would expect output to be. Most days I'll get full charge to the batteries. But on heavy overcast rainy days I might get around half of my use replaced, which from lithium will give about a week before I need to find another charge method. It's very rare to get crappy weather for that long in VIC and SA.

Should add, the SOC of the batteries was 91% (200Ah) and only one LED light bank of 3 lights as load.

On cloudy days is when you want to run them in series to up the voltage so the MPPT can convert it faster wasting less of those precious Sun Hours, It's what I have to do, being in the land of Liquid Sunshine.

EDIT:- You might get 21/22v per panel but once they get connected to something that will imediately drop to around 13.3++ Volts so hooking 3 in series might give an OCV of 61-66v but the moment you plug them in that is going to drop below 40v +/-. Mine do it each and every time.

 

[Nightjar]

NJ, we don't have solar on the roof, at our age, can't see it paying for itself. We are 2 people, however, my wife has a medical condition that requires additional heating in winter and more so, cooling in summer. So, our aircons get a work out. We pay monthly and the last bill was $172 for 15.6kWh average per day, which is the $2k p.a. approximation. However, we get a State govt concession payment of $415 p.a. plus a medical heating and cooling concession for the wife of around $200 p.a. not counting around $10 each p.f. energy sup in the pension. So, around 60% of our bill is covered. I'm not gonna complain lol.... An out of pocket of approx $60 per month is not huge. She's home all of the time and I'm only away when I go digging holes.

You say "last bill was $191", but not how long for?

Condor, Happy to see your wife is keeping warm this long cold winter.
We are enjoying the last years of wood fire heating before the greens take over and fires gone.
I mentioned 10 panels, they were fitted about 12 years ago and I have since blocked all the recent spam posts trying to encourage to discard these panels and replace them with new AND it is FREE. Bull
Our billing is every 2 months, $191/2 month. We pensioners received a concession so actual amount payed this bill was $62.00.

 

[condor22]

I'll wait till I test em we are in differing conditions after all.
Of the panel data that most state -Vmp & Imp are the under load or connected to a controller values. They are the important ones to me.

Should note my MPPT is a Projecta and triggers charging at a lower voltage, however, I can't find the specs to state its value. All I know is that it is working well, with the OEM panel and the new ones even in heavy overcast, albeit less output.

 

[condor22]

I mentioned earlier that the VSR charging in the PM300 of the van was not to my liking. Consequently I have been looking at replacing that with a dedicated DC-DC charger. I didn't want to go overboard on amps, even though the Lithium batteries can take a heavy charge. Primarily for the reason of wiring gauge. The van Anderson hitch is already wired with 8AWG (8B&S). I've already ordered the new 4by to have additional wiring of the same gauge.

I am a fan of Redarc chargers, but not their pricing, however, in looking around, I found that Redarc have introduced a new range of DC-DC chargers. Whereas the BCDC1225D is a 25A charger with MPPT and a lithium profile, their new range is denoted BCDCN1225. It's exactly the same charger except the electronics are not potted.

It is intended for "in cabin" or caravan use as it is not suitable for under bonnet. The big difference is the 1225D is RRP of $634, the N1225 is RRP of $429. I'm a customer of the Home of 12V at Pooraka and got one yesterday for $389. This makes it a definite contender re price point compared to other brands. It's on par with the Projecta equivalent and cheaper than CTEK. Once I finally get the new wheels, it will be installed.

More re vehicle wiring.........

 

[condor22]

I'm also not a fan of using the voltage sensing of DC-DC chargers, I prefer a dedicated switching, so that when the engine is off, all other loads are also disconnected. My connections will be 3.
1. Anderson to the caravan to power the 1225N (40A fuse)
2. ALKO Anti Sway, already fitted tot he caravan (30A fuse)
3. In cabin, rear storage area for another DC-DC to charge the Auxiliary Lithium. (40A fuse)

The recommended wiring is 8AWG, so I'm having a 100AH continuous solenoid fitted IGN switched.

 

[condor22]

The cable I ran to connect external panels has one Anderson plug under the van, so made a couple of patch leads.
Just got back from testing them with the results of each. There's a bit of sun out today and in both series and parallel, the panels showed 14.7 amps going in to the batteries. That reading is what the BMS PM300 was showing as input and close to the rated max of 8.33 amps each. Again for this time of year a good result.

With my average 40-50 AH daily use, around 4 hours at that input will fill the batteries. Should note the on roof 160W panel was not switched on, so in parallel, I could increase that output a few more amps.

At the very worst, the extra panels will extend the time between needing to run the Honda.

 

[Ridge Runner]

The cable I ran to connect external panels has one Anderson plug under the van, so made a couple of patch leads.View attachment 3931
Just got back from testing them with the results of each. There's a bit of sun out today and in both series and parallel, the panels showed 14.7 amps going in to the batteries. That reading is what the BMS PM300 was showing as input and close to the rated max of 8.33 amps each. Again for this time of year a good result.

With my average 40-50 AH daily use, around 4 hours at that input will fill the batteries. Should note the on roof 160W panel was not switched on, so in parallel, I could increase that output a few more amps.

At the very worst, the extra panels will extend the time between needing to run the Honda.

Yep, These Lithiums are going to catch you out "In A Good Way" they charge even with low input and just come alive, Being proper batteries your not restricted by Amp, Volts and Watts, So no matter if your running 4x 260's or 4x 330's etc depending on the charge controller they just suck it up and at lease 90% of the power being harvested / shown on the meter fitted between the Panels and the Controller is going in to the batteries IE your making 115w around 106w +/- will be going in to the battery = 92+%, Unlike lead acid or AGM's where the most they will accept is around 18 to 26% Max.

I done a lot of testing this past couple of months with the Many differant SoGens and I have bought the Factory Charge Enhancers and the bigger Factory Chargers as well as panels ranging from 100w 12/18v to pairs of 260's in series @ 24v and pairs of 330's in series, The biggest issue is with the 330's the Voltage can go over the 60/65v Cap of the SoGens due to poor quality control by who ever makes the panels and cause you to reset the SoGen, bottom line is the 260's in series are the best allrounders,

SoGens being only restricted by Input Voltage although they are lithium they are a lot easier to figure out and to beat the issue of the lack of Sun in Winter or on Cloudy days If I run 3x 200w 12/18v panels in series I can get the voltage up towards that 60/65v Cap, go over that and the SoGen will give an Error Code ( E17 ) and you need to remove one of the panels and press reset, On real bad days where the panels won't make 12v each you can add 5 in series if you wanted as long as you keep under the 60/65v,

There's another way round this that PowerOak / Bluetti does not make a point of telling people which steers people in to buying the big SoGens with the big massive 500w fast chargers, BUT they do actually sell much bigger chargers that can fully charge from Flat their 1800wh / 2400wh SoGens in under 4 to 5 hours, So to save weight and space I am buying a smaller 1100w Generator that is half the weight to power the chargers if needed and all my SoGens now have a Charger Upgrade in relation to their Capacity plus I bought their Charge Enhancer that can also allow the Charging of their Big/Massive SoGens via the 12v Cigar socket in the Vehicle while traveling.

 

[user 22230]

Have to say it guys, you appear to way over complicate it all? The KISS principle is to get a quality regulator such as victron, 200 to 300 watt of fold out panels ( moveable so you max your harvest available) and it runs my camp for 3 weeks without a gen set. Two Waecos (80 litre twin compressor unit and a 40 litre) , water pumps, lighting and charges all my gear. Total cost under a K. All my testing is done in the real world, it either works and keeps my steaks frozen and my beers cold or it doesn't .............that's a pretty good gauge IMHO?
Footnote This is in FNQ but then more sunlight would be off set by the fact the fridges are working in ambient temperatures way above the southern states.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Have to say it guys, you appear to way over complicate it all? The KISS principle is to get a quality regulator such as victron, 200 to 300 watt of fold out panels ( moveable so you max your harvest available) and it runs my camp for 3 weeks without a gen set. Two Waecos (80 litre twin compressor unit and a 40 litre) , water pumps, lighting and charges all my gear. Total cost under a K. All my testing is done in the real world, it either works and keeps my steaks frozen and my beers cold or it doesn't .............that's a pretty good gauge IMHO?
Footnote This is in FNQ but then more sunlight would be off set by the fact the fridges are working in ambient temperatures way above the southern states.

Not at all, I think you missed the point, I just gave away a brand new Victron still boxed along with 3x 115Ah Deep Cycle batteries and all the extras, And tech has moved on and gone are the days of waiting days for batteries to charge,

Condor had a great setup with his old Caravan, His new one needs to be setup to suit his power needs,

My Setup is using a fully self contained unit IE a SoGen and 2 or 300w Foldout Panels, My above post is based on the fact that I am testing at leased 4 or 5 differant sized SoGens using up to 5 differant Solar Panel sizes with more on the way,

My go to system is KISS, I use one or 2x 120w fold out panels and a 512wh SoGen, with this setup I can go off grid for months at a time, Or I can switch it out and run an off grid home if needed complete with all the appliances found in most homes,

My main objective is to find a sollution to the problem of being able to Charge these SoGens or Batteries back up when the weather turns bad where on a lot of Camp sites Generators are not allowed, adding to this where the cost of energy is rising to power our homes all my testing is working towards reducing the costs of powering my home and someone elses, So far I have reduced my power needs down to 3 to 400w per 24hrs where even at home I can get by using a 500wh SoGen and 2x 120w panels it does not get more simple than that.

 

[condor22]

As I mentioned before, I could go out and buy Victron smart solar controllers, Orion DC-DC chargers, new on roof panels and even a better bigger 240VAC charger to pump in 50 amps to the Pylontechs.

The approach I took was to see what works, or not, with what came with the van. Then augment it in a logical way to fix the "or not". I didn't design the van or have it made to my specs, it was in the sales yard as was built. With lockdowns in VIC (where 75% of AU van manufacture occurs), a purpose built van is over a 2 year wait. I ordered my new 4by 51 weeks ago and am still waiting, lol.

The other aspects - It's a new van, anything I alter on the roof can void the van warranty, plus it's a pop top and the roof is heavy enough without adding more.

The first thing I established was; that a new van with a 110lt 12VDC fridge and a 30lt 12VDC drawer fridge was not gonna work well with 1 x 100Ah AGM and 1 x 160W on roof panel, when off grid. Knowing this, I swapped out the AGM for 200Ah of lithium. Doing this then needs a review of charging them.

On recent trips, I then worked out what was fitted actually did, re power, specifically, the solar power production. This then established the need for more solar and given the constraints of on roof, they needed to be portable.

The next phase was to find out what they would do with the existing Projecta PM300, which I have done. I can't see that changing to a Victron smart solar will make a significant difference to solar harvest with my current set up working well. Should a failure occur into the future requiring the Projecta to be replaced, is when I might consider that.

The Victron Orion DC-DC spec sheet states a 60A fuse with 6AWG cable for a 30A charge. The Redarc 1225 is around the same price albeit only 25A charge, but uses a 40A fuse with 8AWG. Given other charging requirements from the 4by, I chose the Redarc. So long as it charges what is used 25A is enough as RR states, lithium will take all of that until almost full.

Bottom line - Given the cost of Lithium, the cost of the van and other items, charging needs to be done properly according to use and need, that's not overthinking it. It's doing it right and doing it once, lol.

PS, the solar conditions of FNQ are vastly different to winter in central VIC.......

 

[Ridge Runner]

I bought mine at the beginning of 2019 and being Lithium they are still teaching me things, Like one of them being charged by the AC adapter is drawing 96w from the wall socket and it is accepting 87w @ 8A, Another brand is pulling 115w from the AC wall socket and 106w @ 8.3 to 8.4A is being absorbed Yet it charges 2 and a 1/2 hours faster than the first one, On the first one I have even used a factory charger by the same company that puts out around 220w but the SoGen is capped at 122w so even using a more powerful charger by charging it at 122w reduced the charge time by 2 and a 1/4 hours, I have yet to compare what the new Big factory charger draws from the AC power but it has twice the out put power and will charge the Huge SoGen in around 4 hours or less from flat,

Why is all this important ?? with the weather I have here I need to workout how to replace the power in the limited Sun Hours I get per day and in Winter time in Vic or Tas people are going to face the same issues I am dealing with,

A Lithium system setup right behaves like nothing we have ever seen and the benefits of such a setup means you can achieve a lot more with a lot less where I have gone away for over a week using just a 512wh / 40Ah SoGen and never run out of power, Where before I struggled to keep 2x 115Ah deep cycle batteries charged above 12.3 to 12.4v using Solar,